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Off topic: 泰晤士(TIMES)四合院儿
Autor wątku: QHE

wherestip  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 13:38
chiński > angielski
+ ...
芒种 Apr 25

Yueyin,

I agree that "Bearded Grain" would be much more understandable to an English-speaking audience.


Bearded Grain Clipart and Illustrations
http://www.fotosearch.com/clip-art/bearded-grain.html



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wherestip  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 13:38
chiński > angielski
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FWIW Apr 25

IMO what constitutes "Chinglish" (in the non-derogatory sense) highly depends on the perspective of the individual reader.

For example, I would even lump the usage "Year of Rooster", which is pretty pervasive both on the web and in real life situations, into this category.

The correct English for this phrase would definitely have a definite article in front of the word "rooster".


[Edited at 2017-04-25 14:25 GMT]


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QHE
USA
Local time: 14:38
angielski > chiński
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NOWY TEMAT
Chinglish Apr 25

David Lin wrote:
The term "corn on ear" is more British English than Chinglish, because British English has its original form ear of corn (barley, wheat and rye) as a botanical term.


I'm sorry, I couldn't follow the fancy logic.


David Lin wrote:

Collins Dictionary defines "Chinglish" as "English spoken by the Chinese or localized in China."
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/submission/2886/Chinglish(N)


Collins Dictionary defines "Chinglish" as:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/chinglish

Chinglish (ˈtʃɪŋɡlɪʃ)
noun
    informal
    written or spoken English that is influenced by Chinese vocabulary and grammatical structure and used primarily by native speakers of Chinese

    Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers



David Lin wrote:
After the European missionary scholars of the 17th Century arrived in China and studied the Solar Terms, they might have perhaps translated these classical Chinese terms into European languages including British English, when they shared the new knowledge gained in China with the people of their countries of origin.


That's a good stretch of the imagination.

[Edited at 2017-04-25 23:51 GMT]


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David Lin  Identity Verified
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 19:38
Członek ProZ.com
od 2013

angielski > chiński
+ ...

Moderator tego forum
More samples of usage Apr 26

I'm sorry, I couldn't follow the fancy logic.


Well, no worries. Maybe it's too hard for you, and I might not have explained in the best way to you.

While the UNESCO recognized "corn on ear" and its variation "grain in ear", "Encyclopedia Britannica" simply uses "grain in ear" under the heading "The Chinese Calendar", as follows:

This meteorological cycle contained 24 points, each beginning one of the periods named consecutively the Spring Begins, the Rain Water, the Excited Insects, the Vernal Equinox, the Clear and Bright, the Grain Rains, the Summer Begins, the Grain Fills, the Grain in Ear, the Summer Solstice, the Slight Heat, the Great Heat, the Autumn Begins, the Limit of Heat, the White Dew, the Autumn Equinox, the Cold Dew, the Hoar Frost Descends, the Winter Begins, the Little Snow, the Heavy Snow, the Winter Solstice, the Little Cold, and the Severe Cold. The establishment of this cycle required a fair amount of astronomical understanding of the Earth as a celestial body, and without elaborate equipment it is impossible to collect the necessary information. Modern scholars acknowledge the superiority of pre-Sung Chinese astronomy (at least until about the 13th century ce) over that of other, contemporary nations.

https://www.britannica.com/science/calendar/Ancient-and-religious-calendar-systems#ref313501

An English botanical scholarly article published in the "Annals of Applied Biology", titled, "Effects of decreasing the number of grains in ears of cvs Hobbit and Maris Huntsman winter wheat". The two authors come from Rothamsted Research, a crop productivity study centre in the United Kingdom.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1744-7348.1981.tb00432.x/full

The Consulate General of the People's Republic of China in New York website uses "grain in ear" in its article titled "What is China's 24 solar terms?".

The solar terms are: Beginning of Spring, Rain Water, Insects Awakening, Spring Equinox, Fresh Green, Grain Rain, Beginning of Summer, Lesser Fullness, Grain in Ear, Summer Solstice, Lesser Heat, Greater Heat, Beginning of Autumn, End of Heat, White Dew, Autumnal Equinox, Cold Dew, First Frost, Beginning of Winter, Light Snow, Heavy Snow, Winter Solstice, Lesser Cold, and Greater Cold.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/cgny/eng/whsw/cci/t1423968.htm

QHE wrote:
另外我觉得 "Grain in Ear" 和 "Corn on Ear" 这两个 Chinglish 译文中,"Grain in Ear" 会容易造成更多误解。


Any easier to follow?


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Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 12:38
angielski > chiński
Chinglish 也入流 Apr 27

wherestip wrote:

 
For example, I would even lump the usage "Year of Rooster", which is pretty pervasive both on the web and in real life situations, into this category.


如果 “Year of Rooster” 是 “Chinglish”,那 “Corn on Ear” 被判为 “Chinglish” 也是当之无愧。 后者会不会同样被广泛使用,就看 “二十四节气” 能否像 “生肖” 一样引起英美人士的兴趣,这已不单纯是语言问题了。

[/quote]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 13:38
chiński > angielski
+ ...
The Chinese Dream Apr 27

Fargoer wrote:

wherestip wrote:

 
For example, I would even lump the usage "Year of Rooster", which is pretty pervasive both on the web and in real life situations, into this category.


如果 “Year of Rooster” 是 “Chinglish”,那 “Corn on Ear” 被判为 “Chinglish” 也是当之无愧。 后者会不会同样被广泛使用,就看 “二十四节气” 能否像 “生肖” 一样引起英美人士的兴趣,这已不单纯是语言问题了。



Fargoer,

Indeed. Some "Chinglish" (in the non-derogatory sense) over time do get accepted and become mainstream. A good example would be the saying "China dream", a phrase that originated in China. Despite it being grammatically incorrect, many CNN reports on China I've read lately cite the phrase as is.


[Edited at 2017-04-27 14:52 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 13:38
chiński > angielski
+ ...
The Use of Articles Apr 27

Fargoer,

Just to clarify what I said in my previous post: I would consider "(the) Year of Rooster" to be incorrect English, whereas "(the) Year of the Rooster" to be grammatically correct. I definitely didn't mean that I would categorically label the English translations for things like 节气 or 生肖 Chinglish just because of their Chinese cultural origin.



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ysun  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 13:38
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Agree Apr 27

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer,

Just to clarify what I said in my previous post: I would consider "(the) Year of Rooster" to be incorrect English, whereas "(the) Year of the Rooster" to be grammatically correct.

https://store.usps.com/store/browse/productDetailSingleSku.jsp?productId=S_552004





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ysun  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 13:38
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United Kingdom Gold Coin Apr 27

http://colnect.com/en/coins/coin/72902-100_Pounds_Year_of_the_Rooster-D17B_-_One_Hundred_Pounds_Bullion-United_Kingdom_of_Great_Britain_Northern_Ireland



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Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 12:38
angielski > chiński
宽容或无奈? Apr 28

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

wherestip wrote:

 
For example, I would even lump the usage "Year of Rooster", which is pretty pervasive both on the web and in real life situations, into this category.


如果 “Year of Rooster” 是 “Chinglish”,那 “Corn on Ear” 被判为 “Chinglish” 也是当之无愧。 后者会不会同样被广泛使用,就看 “二十四节气” 能否像 “生肖” 一样引起英美人士的兴趣,这已不单纯是语言问题了。



Fargoer,

Indeed. Some "Chinglish" (in the non-derogatory sense) over time do get accepted and become mainstream. A good example would be the saying "China dream", a phrase that originated in China. Despite it being grammatically incorrect, many CNN reports on China I've read lately cite the phrase as is.


[Edited at 2017-04-27 14:52 GMT]


“Long time no see” 尚且能够进入主流,说明错误重复千万遍就有可能变成正确。 我当然不是主张应该坚持错误等待它变成正确。对个人来说,错误就是错误。狡辩抵赖也还是错误。但就语言的发展变化而言,约定俗成的规律个人没法抗拒。“约定”是说语言不能不讲规则,“俗成”则是说有时又不得不从众随流。记得小时候学成语“叶公好龙”,老师反复强调“叶”要读为“she4”。可是今天连成语词典也改成“ye4”了,有些词典注明“旧读〔she4〕”,就算给语文老师面子了。

[修改时间: 2017-04-28 05:03 GMT]


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wherestip  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 13:38
chiński > angielski
+ ...
石径斜 Apr 28

Fargoer wrote:

“Long time no see” 尚且能够进入主流,说明错误重复千万遍就有可能变成正确。 我当然不是主张应该坚持错误等待它变成正确。对个人来说,错误就是错误。狡辩抵赖也还是错误。但就语言的发展变化而言,约定俗成的规律个人没法抗拒。“约定”是说语言不能不讲规则,“俗成”则是说有时又不得不从众随流。记得小时候学成语“叶公好龙”,老师反复强调“叶”要读为“she4”。可是今天连成语词典也改成“ye4”了,有些词典注明“旧读〔she4〕”,就算给语文老师面子了。



Fargoer,

I agree with you. Personally, I'm in the aware but "live and let live" camp, meaning I don't make a big deal out of someone using the wrong grammar in passing; but if the topic becomes an issue, I'm all for calling a spade a spade.

https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/32202718.html
远上寒山石径“斜”的“斜”字该如何读?


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Jianhong Jane Wang  Identity Verified
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 19:38
Członek ProZ.com
od Jan 2017

angielski > chiński
+ ...
还有“鬓毛衰” Apr 28

同感,我也是习惯不了说“远上寒山石径斜xie2" 或者 “鬓毛衰shuai1”。如今我也教子弟读唐诗,会说有人念成“远上寒山石径斜xie2”,可是这样不押韵,不好听,孩子们都点头,跟我念xia2。

“叶ye4公好龙” 我倒是没问题,因为上小学那会儿课本已经改成这样了,语文老师解释说她以前读书念的是she4,我都觉得she4没有ye4好听! 语言变迁的潮流是抵挡不了的啊。


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Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 12:39
angielski > chiński
同一阵营 Apr 28

wherestip wrote:

Fargoer wrote:

“Long time no see” 尚且能够进入主流,说明错误重复千万遍就有可能变成正确。 我当然不是主张应该坚持错误等待它变成正确。对个人来说,错误就是错误。狡辩抵赖也还是错误。但就语言的发展变化而言,约定俗成的规律个人没法抗拒。“约定”是说语言不能不讲规则,“俗成”则是说有时又不得不从众随流。记得小时候学成语“叶公好龙”,老师反复强调“叶”要读为“she4”。可是今天连成语词典也改成“ye4”了,有些词典注明“旧读〔she4〕”,就算给语文老师面子了。



Fargoer,

I agree with you. Personally, I'm in the aware but "live and let live" camp, meaning I don't make a big deal out of someone using the wrong grammar in passing; but if the topic becomes an issue, I'm all for calling a spade a spade.

https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/32202718.html
远上寒山石径“斜”的“斜”字该如何读?


其实我和你一样,是爱在文字上较真的人。我们吃文字饭的,和语文老师是一个阵营。该矫情的还是得矫情。 不过,在英语问题上,我没有较真的资本,所以喜欢站在被挑毛病一方矫情,扮演学生的角色比较容易些。说到底,都是求学而已。


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Fargoer
Kanada
Local time: 12:39
angielski > chiński
律诗的讲究 Apr 29

wherestip wrote:

 
远上寒山石径“斜”的“斜”字该如何读?
https://zhidao.baidu.com/question/32202718.html

我知道如今可能多数人读“xie2”。有些专家也这样主张。人们可能觉得第一句最后一个字可以不押韵。但是按照格律诗的要求,这里“斜”字只能读为“xia2”。因为这首七绝的格律是“仄起平收,首句入韵”。第一句不押韵就出律了。

[修改时间: 2017-04-29 00:41 GMT]

[修改时间: 2017-04-29 00:58 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 13:39
angielski > chiński
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The Sussex parchment copy Apr 29

wherestip wrote:

http://www.proz.com/post/2317357#2317357
Where is the original Declaration of Independence kept?


http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/24/world/declaration-of-independence-england-trnd/index.html

Second copy of Declaration of Independence discovered
By Sophie Lewis, CNN

Steve,

The discovery of the Sussex parchment copy is truly remarkable. Nevertheless, the original Declaration of Independence is undoubtedly kept at the National Archives in Washington, DC.

The copy of the Declaration of Independence kept in the British Parliament is definitely not the original. It was clearly marked as “Copy”, which can be seen from the first and the last page of the pictures as shown at the link David provided in his post at http://www.proz.com/post/2317345#2317345 . That copy doesn’t even bear the signatures of those delegates. Moreover, the handwritten name of John Hancock doesn't look like his authentic signature. It seems to me that it could be a handwritten copy of the printed Dunlap broadside.

I totally agree that the information QHE provided at the link below is really helpful and educational:
http://www.proz.com/post/2317408#2317408

QHE wrote:

The Declaration of Independence: A History
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_history.html

...

John Hancock, the President of the Congress, was the first to sign the sheet of parchment measuring 24¼ by 29¾ inches. He used a bold signature centered below the text. In accordance with prevailing custom, the other delegates began to sign at the right below the text, their signatures arranged according to the geographic location of the states they represented.

Below are the signatures of those delegates put on the original Declaration of Independence, as described above:



Please also see: The Truest Copy of Declaration of Independence
https://www.constitutionfacts.com/us-declaration-of-independence/true-copy-of-declaration-of-independence/

"Those who go to see the engrossed copy at the National Archives are shocked that it is barely visible. Its pale brown text on off-white parchment is impossible to read," Lingenfelter said. "The Anastatic Declaration is a facsimile from a plate produced by a chemical transfer process that nearly destroyed the original engrossed Declaration."


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