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Autor wątku: QHE
QHE
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NOWY TEMAT
Happy Lazy Labor Day ! Aug 31, 2014



"Lazy Day" - The Moody Blues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fMgzz3vs0w



[Edited at 2014-08-31 23:22 GMT]


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David Lin  Identity Verified
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炒作多样化 Aug 31, 2014

ysun wrote: 是否炒作

照你这么说,那就是艾米自我炒作,而不是艾米为电影公司炒作,也不是电影公司利用艾米为电影炒作。当然,艾米对电影《山楂树之恋》的批评,在客观上会使老百姓对均以《山楂树之恋》为名的小说、电影及电视剧产生好奇心。

姑且不论艾米是否是自我炒作,你认为艾米对电影《山楂树之恋》的批评是否有理呢?



这个很难说。不过,从深圳特区报记者的报导可看到一点端倪 (参阅下面链结)。

其中一位商业推手被记者问到艾米的身份时说:“故作神秘也是一种炒作。”

http://huaxia.com/zhwh/whgc/2010/09/2105027.html

果然不出我所料,显然此电影的宣传手法是高招一道。只为要查证原作者艾米的真正身份,报纸新闻变成为电影造免费宣传。

在 “硬伤篇” 第一集里,“作者” 更呼籲: “如果你看过电影或打算去看,那么请你帮我核对一下,看我说的是不是事实,有没有错误或疏漏。” 等怂恿语气。

http://club.zhiyin.cn/redirect.php?tid=18573&goto=lastpost&styleid=1

所以,如果我们现在继续讨论作者对电影的批评是否正确,其实我们就已堕入当年宣传的罗网,免费替电影制造舆论。

虽然已经是正式放映多年后的事情,但是可见这种宣传方式的延续功能,多年之后,依然有效。

你还想我回答你的问题吗?


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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Local time: 15:46
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Perhaps Aug 31, 2014

... the author just didn't like the way the film based on her novel turned out. it seems to me she could be totally innocent, and didn't have any intention of either manipulating public opinion or conspiring to cause a stir in social media.

Of course, I haven't read the book, seen the film, or watched the TV series. I just don't understand why there has to be some ulterior motive on the author's part to ignite some kind of controversy in the Chinese media, to her own benefit or otherwise. After all, she's probably living a happy existence these days here in the United States.


[Edited at 2014-09-01 05:27 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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两个属于不同范畴的问题 Sep 1, 2014

David Lin wrote:

ysun wrote: 是否炒作

照你这么说,那就是艾米自我炒作,而不是艾米为电影公司炒作,也不是电影公司利用艾米为电影炒作。当然,艾米对电影《山楂树之恋》的批评,在客观上会使老百姓对均以《山楂树之恋》为名的小说、电影及电视剧产生好奇心。

姑且不论艾米是否是自我炒作,你认为艾米对电影《山楂树之恋》的批评是否有理呢?



这个很难说。不过,从深圳特区报记者的报导可看到一点端倪 (参阅下面链结)。

其中一位商业推手被记者问到艾米的身份时说:“故作神秘也是一种炒作。”

http://huaxia.com/zhwh/whgc/2010/09/2105027.html

果然不出我所料,显然此电影的宣传手法是高招一道。只为要查证原作者艾米的真正身份,报纸新闻变成为电影造免费宣传。

在 “硬伤篇” 第一集里,“作者” 更呼籲: “如果你看过电影或打算去看,那么请你帮我核对一下,看我说的是不是事实,有没有错误或疏漏。” 等怂恿语气。

http://club.zhiyin.cn/redirect.php?tid=18573&goto=lastpost&styleid=1

所以,如果我们现在继续讨论作者对电影的批评是否正确,其实我们就已堕入当年宣传的罗网,免费替电影制造舆论。

虽然已经是正式放映多年后的事情,但是可见这种宣传方式的延续功能,多年之后,依然有效。

你还想我回答你的问题吗?


David,

你回答或不回答我的问题,那是你的权力,就像艾米不想暴露她的真实身份是她的权力一样。那个商业推手认为“故作神秘也是一种炒作”,那只是他的猜测,同时说明他还不够尊重艾米的隐私权。

不过,艾米对电影的批评是否正确,与这种批评是否是一种炒作,这是两个属于不同范畴的问题。根据你提供的链接,电影编剧顾小白的话已经明确说明,电影剧组与艾米在合同上、经济利益上毫无关系。所以,艾米没有理由为电影炒作,电影剧组也没有理由为艾米炒作。退一步讲,即使艾米对电影的批评是一种炒作,也不等于她的批评不正确。

我是最近有人在此提起《山楂树之恋》之后,才看了这部电影。看了之后,我感觉这部电影很一般,而且有些情节有点假。电视剧《山楂树之恋》则更是低估观众的智商。你前面说“我很喜欢看到 Ysun 的过来人看法”。这才会有以后一连串的讨论。如果现在你想停止这场讨论,我也绝对会尊重你的决定。


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ysun  Identity Verified
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我也这样理解 Sep 1, 2014

wherestip wrote:

... the author just didn't like the way the film based on her novel turned out. it seems to me she could be totally innocent, and didn't have any intention of either manipulating public opinion or conspiring to cause a stir in social media.

Steve,

我也这样理解。艾米看到张艺谋把她原著里的许多情节改得面目全非,所以很不高兴。我也没看过小说版《山楂树之恋》。我在看到艾米对电影的评论之前,原以为她的小说也写得这么滥。看了之后才知道,原来许多情节已经被电影编导篡改了。如果艾米保持沉默,就等于她默认了这种篡改。


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wherestip  Identity Verified
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我觉得 大多数情况下 并非作者有意炒作 Sep 1, 2014

Yueyin,

I agree with you.

IMO, it happens sometimes. Not every author is always happy with the screen adaptation of their book/s. Here's an article I found on the web that lists some prominent examples ...

http://mentalfloss.com/article/31001/11-authors-who-hated-movie-versions-their-books



11 Authors Who Hated the Movie Versions of Their Books
- Stacy Conradt

1. Disney’s Mary Poppins might be a cherished childhood memory for a lot of us, but for author P.L. Travers, it was a complete slap in the face. ...

2. Stephen King probably made movie buffs cringe when he said he hated what Stanley Kubrick did to The Shining. ...

3. After casting was completed for the movie version of Anne Rice's Interview with the Vampire, she said Tom Cruise was "no more my vampire Lestat than Edward G. Robinson is Rhett Butler." ...

4. Note to filmmakers: don’t anger the author of the book before the sequel has been written. Unhappy with the way Hollywood treated Forrest Gump by omitting plot points and sanitizing some of the language and sex, author Winston Groom started its sequel with the lines, "Don't never let nobody make a movie of your life's story,” ...

5. Clive Cussler’s Dirk Pitt tales have a cult following. Dirk Pitt movies don’t, especially 2005’s Sahara starring Matthew McConaughey and Penelope Cruz. ...

6. There’s a reason no one has ever seen a big-screen version of Catcher in the Rye or Franny and Zooey. ...

7. Not only did Anthony Burgess dislike the movie based on his novella A Clockwork Orange, he later regretted writing any of it in the first place. ...

8. Bret Easton Ellis doesn’t think any of the film adaptations of his books are that great (save for maybe The Rules of Attraction), but he dislikes some more than others. ...

9. Ever wonder why Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator hasn’t followed in the silver screen footsteps of its predecessor, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? Because Roald Dahl felt the movie version of his book was “crummy,” found Gene Wilder’s Willy Wonka to be “pretentious” and “bouncy,” and thought the director had “no talent or flair.” He vowed that film producers would never get their hands on the sequel to similarly ruin it, at least not in his lifetime. ...

10. Despite the fact that One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest swept the Academy Awards - it won Best Picture, Best Director, Best Actor, Best Actress and Best Screenplay - author Ken Kesey was not impressed. ...

11. Richard Matheson has been annoyed with the adaptations of his book I Am Legend since 1964. ...




Turning a Book into a Movie: An Author's Perspective
http://filmmakermagazine.com/58787-turning-a-book-into-a-movie-an-authors-perspective/#.VAR2hEtZ-bA



... While Bissinger had problems with the movie adaptation of his book, he had greater problems with the TV show that came later, and was much further from the book. “I never watched it,” he said, adding that “what happens today is people think that I wrote the TV series and they say, ‘I loved the TV series,’ and I say, ‘I actually wrote a book,’ and they say, ‘What book?’ ” At one point Bissinger said dismissively, “They love saying ‘based on a true story.’ What they really should say is ‘based on a story that once upon a time may have been true.’” **

Towards the end of the evening it appeared that Bissinger felt like the panel hadn’t been contentious enough, and he was as eager to disparage current writers as he was moviemakers. “I think most non-fiction writers write for the movies. Their books are treatments. Don’t tell me the Social Network was a book,” he said. “This is what writers are doing and in the name of non-fiction, they’ll make it up, they’ll switch scenes around, they’ll make up dialogue. Publishers will go along with it because they don’t care about fact checking, so what you’re getting too much of is surface.” Dubus only partly agreed with him, saying that some non-fiction books are like that, but not all. He did think there were other issues with young writers. “I think that too many young writers today are being inspired to write stories because they have watched a lot of films, they have not read a lot of books.”

~*~*~*~*~*~*

** BTW, I love this line.



[Edited at 2014-09-01 15:17 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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同意 Sep 1, 2014

wherestip wrote:

我觉得 大多数情况下 并非作者有意炒作

Steve,

艾米对电影《山楂树之恋》有根有据的批评,对电影产生的是负面影响。所以,艾米的批评不会是电影剧组炒作计划的一部分。如果说艾米是为她自己的小说炒作,从逻辑上可以说得过去,但除非有足够的证据,我宁愿不从坏的方面去猜测别人的动机。

在 David 提供的链接中,艾米已经说得很清楚了:“但我是原著作者,著作权法赋予我权利保证我的作品不被改编者歪曲篡改,我找出这部影片的问题,看看影片是否歪曲篡改了我的原著,是在行使我的合法权利。不管哪个导演拍这部影片,我都会这样做。” 我认为,她的说法是合情合理的。

某些人把《山楂树之恋》吹捧为“世上最纯洁的爱情故事”。我不知他们如何定义“世上最纯洁的爱情”。在我看来,不一定非得“啥事儿都没有”(影片中静秋好友魏红语)的爱情才是最纯洁的爱情。电影 “The Ring” 里面 Ariana 与那位德国军官的爱情,照样也是最纯洁的爱情。


[Edited at 2014-09-02 04:31 GMT]


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ysun  Identity Verified
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Ariana and the German officer Sep 1, 2014

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0115150/
The Ring (1996)

During WW II, a young German woman is separated from her family and imprisoned by the Nazis. After being freed she falls in love with and marries a German officer. When Berlin falls to the Russians, and her husband killed, she flees to America, carrying his unborn child, all the while not giving up hope that she will find her family, tied together by her mother's ring.



[Edited at 2014-09-01 18:26 GMT]


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QHE
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NOWY TEMAT
中秋节 Sep 1, 2014

今年的中秋节好像来得早,我才知道9月8日就是中秋节了。

提早祝福大家
快乐,吉祥,如意,健康,平安!


Image: 北海 China.org.cn

Claire de Lune - Claude Debussy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcpamvLB2JU


[Edited at 2014-09-02 16:27 GMT]


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David Lin  Identity Verified
Wielka Brytania
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Moderator tego forum
宣传手法 Sep 2, 2014

ysun wrote:
David,

你回答或不回答我的问题,那是你的权力,就像艾米不想暴露她的真实身份是她的权力一样。那个商业推手认为“故作神秘也是一种炒作”,那只是他的猜测,同时说明他还不够尊重艾米的隐私权。

不过,艾米对电影的批评是否正确,与这种批评是否是一种炒作,这是两个属于不同范畴的问题。根据你提供的链接,电影编剧顾小白的话已经明确说明,电影剧组与艾米在合同上、经济利益上毫无关系。所以,艾米没有理由为电影炒作,电影剧组也没有理由为艾米炒作。退一步讲,即使艾米对电影的批评是一种炒作,也不等于她的批评不正确。

我是最近有人在此提起《山楂树之恋》之后,才看了这部电影。看了之后,我感觉这部电影很一般,而且有些情节有点假。电视剧《山楂树之恋》则更是低估观众的智商。你前面说“我很喜欢看到 Ysun 的过来人看法”。这才会有以后一连串的讨论。如果现在你想停止这场讨论,我也绝对会尊重你的决定。


昨天(星期一)伦敦这边不是公假,英国的劳动节在 五。一 已经庆祝了,因此工作特忙,回到家已经很累。现在可以回应一下热烈且有趣的讨论。

其实我们一直讨论的焦点,与艾米有没有权利发表有关改编自其小说的电影的评论,或者那样评论电影的行为,是对或错,完全无关。而是事后长篇大论并最终怂恿读者去看其小说改编成的电影,所引起的附带连锁宣传作用。其中甚至以问答游戏的奖励方式鼓励 -如果读者能指出她对电影的评论那里有错,更会送出她的小说作品作为报酬。

如斯推广宣传自己作品的连锁行销手法,纯粹从媒体宣传角度看,个人觉得是一种公关造势极高招式。当然,我不抹杀这种手法其中也包含纠正剧本改编出错的目的。

所以,完全没有牵涉个人权利问题。

加上 Steve 提出一份知名作家名单,他们(例如 Stephen King) 也曾提出对电影改编的异议和反感。 因此,也证明一点,就是这种宣传手法其实一直行之有效,非自艾米开始,也不会以艾米结束。个人看来,这只不过是商业行销手法的一种,只要一日有小说出版,一日有导演想改编成电影或电视连续剧,过去、今日、将来,都会被人重复运用。

我以 “你还想我回答你的问题吗?” 来结束帖子,那只不过是 an expression only。不好意思令你误会了。我想表达的是,这种讨论正是公关宣传手法想要达到制造舆论的目的,而我们可能简接被利用,不但不自知,且会乐此不疲。

不是真的要拒绝回答你的友善问题。

还有,越看越多疑点,其中一个是作者声称没有留意与出版社签订的合约中有关电影版权和改编剧本问题。和翻译类似,我相信所有作家都必会在签合同时提出一个重要问题:如何确保自己小说的外文译本会符合原著。美国是一个法治国家,和英国一样,日常大小事不离法律合约条文,以一个在美国长期居住多年的人来说,岂有注意不到剧本改编或电影版权的道理?

而且,电影比小说和翻译的版权费和分红比例更高,是长远利润、切身关系啊!


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David Lin  Identity Verified
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 21:46
Członek ProZ.com
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angielski > chiński
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很 美 丽 的 明 月 Sep 2, 2014

QHE wrote:

今年的中秋节好像来得早,我才知道9月8日就是中秋节了。

提早祝福大家
快乐,吉祥,如意,健康,平安!


Image: China.org.cn

[Edited at 2014-09-01 20:18 GMT]


Q:

谢谢你的祝福。你也一样,生活工作都满有福气!

美丽照片可以加上地点吗?

送上苏轼佳作及王菲乐韵与你分享。

《水 调 歌 头》

明月几时有,把酒问青天。
不知天上宫阙,今夕是何年。
我欲乘风归去,又恐琼楼玉宇,高处不胜寒。
起舞弄清影,何似在人间。 
 
转朱阁,低绮户,照无眠。
不应有恨,何事长向别时圆。
人有悲欢离合,月有阴晴圆缺,此事古难全。
但愿人长久,千里共婵娟。

《但愿人长久》-王菲
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCREDfUEd3Y


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ysun  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 15:46
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问题所在 Sep 2, 2014

David Lin wrote:

其实我们一直讨论的焦点,与艾米有没有权利发表有关改编自其小说的电影的评论,或者那样评论电影的行为,是对或错,完全无关。而是事后长篇大论并最终怂恿读者去看其小说改编成的电影,所引起的附带连锁宣传作用。其中甚至以问答游戏的奖励方式鼓励 -如果读者能指出她对电影的评论那里有错,更会送出她的小说作品作为报酬。

如斯推广宣传自己作品的连锁行销手法,纯粹从媒体宣传角度看,个人觉得是一种公关造势极高招式。当然,我不抹杀这种手法其中也包含纠正剧本改编出错的目的。

David,

我们讨论的出发点是,这部电影的有些情节是不是有点假。我之所以介绍艾米的评论,就是因为她的评论已经全面地回答了这个问题。关于是否是炒作的问题,我在上面已经很清楚地表明了我的观点,不再赘述。你觉得我们可能被炒作者利用,我认为你是多虑了。如果一涉及《山楂树之恋》的话题就是被利用,那么之前在此介绍《山楂树之恋》的同仁们岂不是也被利用了?甚至连《山楂树之恋》小说本身,都有很多人在各种媒体上质疑。小说的另一作者静秋还出面答疑。难道说,那些质疑的人都中了炒作的圈套?对于艾米是否在炒作,我不关心。我只关心她的评论有否有道理。你认为艾米的评论是炒作,而不管她说得是否有理。这就是我们之间的不同。

对于艾米有没有权利发表这些评论,或者这种行为是对或错,我从未有过任何疑问。《中华人民共和国著作权法实施条例》第十条规定:“著作权人许可他人将其作品摄制成电影作品和以类似摄制电影的方法创作的作品的,视为已同意对其作品进行必要的改动,但是这种改动不得歪曲篡改原作品。”
http://www.gapp.gov.cn/kejishuzi/Technology_old/contents/3738/143300.html

至于“作者声称没有留意与出版社签订的合约中有关电影版权和改编剧本问题”,这个问题更加偏离了我们讨论的主题。如果我们再去讨论这个问题,那就越扯越远了。建议你去看看网上的有关报道,或许可以解答你的疑点。

关于《山楂树之恋》,我原来没想到会讨论那么长时间。既然你担心被炒作者利用,那我们就到此为止吧。谢谢你在百忙之中发表了这么多宝贵的意见。


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QHE
USA
Local time: 16:46
angielski > chiński
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT
Thank you Sep 2, 2014

David,

Thank you for the good wishes and for sharing the elegant classical poem.

David Lin wrote:
美丽照片可以加上地点吗?


Now you know


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David Lin  Identity Verified
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 21:46
Członek ProZ.com
od 2013

angielski > chiński
+ ...

Moderator tego forum
自 然 Sep 3, 2014

ysun wrote:

.... 对于艾米是否在炒作,我不关心。我只关心她的评论有否有道理。你认为艾米的评论是炒作,而不管她说得是否有理。这就是我们之间的不同。....


ysun,

你一语中的!而且看得挺透彻,我们绝对是从两个层面 (或方向)讨论同一个主题。虽然方向不同,却有一点点因果关系。

其实朋友聊天,交换经验及看法过程中,这种情况经常会发生,是很平常的事。不然只存在单一方向,交流面就缺乏宽度。我们可以用平常心对待我们不同之处。因为这正是专业论坛的功能,让我们能够集思广益、脑激荡(brainstorming - 很久没用这个好像已经过时的词语)、互相启发、互助互利。

在此 ”泰晤士(TIMES) 四合院儿“ 聊天,大家毋需担心忙与不忙,一有空就来聊聊,天南地北,无所不谈,大家以礼相待,也毋需说客套话。这样自然会觉得轻省、潇洒、融洽。


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J.H. Wang
Chiny
Local time: 04:46
Członek ProZ.com
od 2007

angielski > chiński
+ ...
头脑风暴 Sep 3, 2014

David Lin wrote:

脑激荡(brainstorming - 很久没用这个好像已经过时的词语)、互相启发、互助互利。


这是内地常见的译法,至于是否准确还可以再议。当我最早见到“头脑风暴”这个词时感觉非常新鲜,后来才知道是从英文翻译过来的。


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