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Deja vu X3 – bugs and areas to improve
Thread poster: Pavel Tsvetkov
Pavel Tsvetkov
Pavel Tsvetkov  Identity Verified
Bulgaria
Local time: 17:48
Member (2008)
English to Bulgarian
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Moderator of this forum
TOPIC STARTER
Atril turns a deaf ear... Feb 6, 2015

pro-lingua wrote:

1) I must say I simply hated the fact that DVX3 does not in any way highlight or underline in the editor window the words it has found in my termbases or the Lexicon. Why not? Each time I moved to another segment I had to look at the "Portions" window to see if the software has found any new words or not. And it gets tedious when the segments are long and there are dozen found words and you need to scroll down the list... A big flaw for me.


Seconded. I have brought several times this lack of functionality to the attention of Atril developers (all the way up to the owners), but the answer has always been "we want to keep a clean looking translation window". No amount of pleading or explanations will obviously work.

And in the meantime they could easily introduce it in a switchable form, so that translators who do not like to see the source terms underlined could switch off highlighting/underlining them.

Best regards,
PTs


 
Alistair Gainey
Alistair Gainey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:48
Russian to English
Sounds good Feb 6, 2015

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:

Dave's AutoSuggest AHK can be used maybe, at least for large projects.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dejavu-l/conversations/topics/96797

Export to EV, find all dates, numbers, words in uppercase, internet/mail addresses etc. using Word's advanced find option with regex. Then copy all found results to a text file to be used with the AHK script.



Sounds good -thanks. You need to download AHK, right? Unfortunately, I got an installer error. I'll have to look at it later on.

[Edited at 2015-02-06 18:18 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-02-06 18:18 GMT]


 
Wojciech_ (X)
Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 16:48
English to Polish
+ ...
Thank you for your comments Feb 7, 2015

Once again, I didn't want to criticise DVX3 just for the sake of criticising, but I felt a bit sad that software with such potential is simply too inconvenient to use (of course I'm speaking for myself only).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember one more thing that I found odd. I remember that the software didn't add automatically spaces after full stops and they needed to be added manually. A bit inconvenient if you're used to using CATs that handle this automatically. But once
... See more
Once again, I didn't want to criticise DVX3 just for the sake of criticising, but I felt a bit sad that software with such potential is simply too inconvenient to use (of course I'm speaking for myself only).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember one more thing that I found odd. I remember that the software didn't add automatically spaces after full stops and they needed to be added manually. A bit inconvenient if you're used to using CATs that handle this automatically. But once again, I might be wrong here - perhaps it was configurable?

Regarding different size of the font. I actually meant vertical splitting (sorry).I thought implementing it was a great idea, but since I like to use (and I think most translators do) large fonts for the segment that I'm translating, I thougt it was a pity, that you couldn't change independently the size of the font for the currently edited segment. Ideally for me would be, for example size 16-18 for the segment being edited, and 10 for the other ones.
The same goes with Preview - this wouldn't have to have the option to change font, but at least the option to zoom in and out would be great.



[Edited at 2015-02-07 16:10 GMT]
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Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak)
Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak)  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 16:48
Member (2010)
English to Polish
+ ...
spaces Feb 7, 2015

pro-lingua wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember one more thing that I found odd. I remember that the software didn't add automatically spaces after full stops and they needed to be added manually.


[Edited at 2015-02-07 16:10 GMT]


I'm afraid you are wrong When you export a project and if some spaces are missing, the program asks you whether you want to add them automatically. It is actually good to have this as an option, because sometimes spaces after full stops may ruin the format of your file.
Ewa

[Edited at 2015-02-07 19:48 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-02-07 19:49 GMT]


 
Wojciech_ (X)
Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 16:48
English to Polish
+ ...
Not what I meant Feb 7, 2015

I didn't meant the option to add spaces to the source file.
I was talking about being forced to add a space after a full stop, question mark etc in each TARGET segment so that there is a proper gap between two sentences in one paragraph. In other CATs when you move to the next segment, the space is added automatically.


 
Mario Cerutti
Mario Cerutti  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 00:48
Italian to Japanese
+ ...
Only Japanese Feb 7, 2015

pro-lingua wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember one more thing that I found odd. I remember that the software didn't add automatically spaces after full stops and they needed to be added manually.

The problem of not adding spaces automatically after full stops is related to Japanese only (perhaps Chinese too), which use no spaces between characters and punctuation marks. DVX asks whether to add a space automatically in the target cell only if it finds them in the source. For what I have seen, SDL Studio doesn't even bother to ask, and it seems it does it right.


 
Wojciech_ (X)
Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 16:48
English to Polish
+ ...
Not quite right Feb 8, 2015

Mario Cerutti wrote:

pro-lingua wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember one more thing that I found odd. I remember that the software didn't add automatically spaces after full stops and they needed to be added manually.

The problem of not adding spaces automatically after full stops is related to Japanese only (perhaps Chinese too), which use no spaces between characters and punctuation marks. DVX asks whether to add a space automatically in the target cell only if it finds them in the source. For what I have seen, SDL Studio doesn't even bother to ask, and it seems it does it right.



I've decided to check it once again and installed the demo on my other computer.
I'm afraid, I was right. When you don't add a space after a full stop before moving to another sentence/segment, the next sentence follows immediately without a space. I haven't had that problem in any other CAT.

To summarize, I would be willing to buy Deja Vu if not for its inconvenient method of handling terminology (no highlighting of the found terms, impossible to select on the fly in which glossary I want to save a given term), the lack of proper names and number handling feature in Autowrite (not too bothersome, though) and the thing with spaces I've just mentioned.

On the other hand... the Deepminer... hats off, Ladies and Gentlemen.

[Edited at 2015-02-08 23:30 GMT]


 
Alistair Gainey
Alistair Gainey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:48
Russian to English
My experience too Feb 9, 2015

Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak) wrote:

pro-lingua wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember one more thing that I found odd. I remember that the software didn't add automatically spaces after full stops and they needed to be added manually.


[Edited at 2015-02-07 16:10 GMT]


I'm afraid you are wrong When you export a project and if some spaces are missing, the program asks you whether you want to add them automatically. It is actually good to have this as an option, because sometimes spaces after full stops may ruin the format of your file.
Ewa

[Edited at 2015-02-07 19:48 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-02-07 19:49 GMT]


This has been my experience too, translating into English. I've never had a problem with spaces; you do the translation and then, at the end, during the exporting process it asks you if you want to add missing spaces between segments, you say yes, and it does. On rare occasions when I've split or combined segments a space isn't added when it should be, but the vast majority of the time it works perfectly OK. Perhaps it's just an issue with the demo version, or maybe I haven't understood the problem.



[Edited at 2015-02-09 09:51 GMT]


 
Wojciech_ (X)
Wojciech_ (X)
Poland
Local time: 16:48
English to Polish
+ ...
OK, understand now Feb 9, 2015

Alistair Gainey wrote:

Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak) wrote:

pro-lingua wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember one more thing that I found odd. I remember that the software didn't add automatically spaces after full stops and they needed to be added manually.


[Edited at 2015-02-07 16:10 GMT]


I'm afraid you are wrong When you export a project and if some spaces are missing, the program asks you whether you want to add them automatically. It is actually good to have this as an option, because sometimes spaces after full stops may ruin the format of your file.
Ewa

[Edited at 2015-02-07 19:48 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-02-07 19:49 GMT]


This has been my experience too, translating into English. I've never had a problem with spaces; you do the translation and then, at the end, during the exporting process it asks you if you want to add missing spaces between segments, you say yes, and it does. On rare occasions when I've split or combined segments a space isn't added when it should be, but the vast majority of the time it works perfectly OK. Perhaps it's just an issue with the demo version, or maybe I haven't understood the problem.



[Edited at 2015-02-09 09:51 GMT]


Thanks for clarification. Having used DVX3 only as a demo I never reach the exporting process


 
Selcuk Akyuz
Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 18:48
English to Turkish
+ ...
spaces Feb 9, 2015

In all Atril products, starting with DVI (DejaVu Interactive) some 20 years ago, followed by DVX, DVX2 and DVX3, you have to add a space at the end of the the target segment if there is one in the source segment.

Simple question, why do we have a space at the end of source segments? Well, 20 years ago there were only a few CAT tools and most translators were using Word.

In Word, most translators simply add a space when a sentence is completed. It is a punctuation rule t
... See more
In all Atril products, starting with DVI (DejaVu Interactive) some 20 years ago, followed by DVX, DVX2 and DVX3, you have to add a space at the end of the the target segment if there is one in the source segment.

Simple question, why do we have a space at the end of source segments? Well, 20 years ago there were only a few CAT tools and most translators were using Word.

In Word, most translators simply add a space when a sentence is completed. It is a punctuation rule to add a space after a full stop. Now, CAT tools divide text into segments but possibly most translators continued to add an extra space at the end of target segment. Because it was writing habit for them.

Atril's solution was smart, it could hide the space in the source segment and add it automatically in export. But that could cause two spaces because of users' habit of adding a space after each sentence.


When working in DVX, I do add a space at the end of each segment without checking the source. And at the final stage I check them with a SQL filter:

Target_XXX LIKE "* " AND Source NOT LIKE "* "

So, I don't find this as a bug but a smart solution by Atril.



[Edited at 2015-02-09 20:31 GMT]
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Selcuk Akyuz
Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 18:48
English to Turkish
+ ...
DeepMiner Feb 9, 2015

pro-lingua wrote:

On the other hand... the Deepminer... hats off, Ladies and Gentlemen.


Yes, something very powerful under the hood, a feature only available in DVX2 and DVX3.


 
Mario Cerutti
Mario Cerutti  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 00:48
Italian to Japanese
+ ...
Habits Feb 10, 2015

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
In Word, most translators simply add a space when a sentence is completed. It is a punctuation rule to add a space after a full stop. Now, CAT tools divide text into segments but possibly most translators continued to add an extra space at the end of target segment. Because it was writing habit for them.

While in Word adding a space after the full stop is normal (for most languages) - indeed it's necessary when another sentence immediately follows on the same line - In CAT software like DVX it's not, at least it's not for me and it has never been so, simply because no other sentence follows on that very same line. It's completely isolated and it comes natural to me to see it like that. Maybe I am part of a minority of people who don't have such habit, and I am afraid it will not be easy for me to start and succeed right now simply because one CAT software requires me to do so. Am I really part of a minority?

But, can't DVX3 be taught to automatically add a space (or not) in the target segment depending on whether a space is already present in the source segment, or based on the current source/target language combination?


 
Selcuk Akyuz
Selcuk Akyuz  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 18:48
English to Turkish
+ ...
DVX adds missing spaces Feb 10, 2015

Mario Cerutti wrote:

But, can't DVX3 be taught to automatically add a space (or not) in the target segment depending on whether a space is already present in the source segment, or based on the current source/target language combination?


When you export a translation, DVX checks if there are missing spaces and asks to add them. So, no need to change habits for any.

As for extra spaces, you can check them with SQL filters, it is part of my QA checks stored in SQL filters.

Selcuk


 
Mario Cerutti
Mario Cerutti  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 00:48
Italian to Japanese
+ ...
Japanese is an exception Feb 10, 2015

Selcuk Akyuz wrote:
When you export a translation, DVX checks if there are missing spaces and asks to add them.

This is not true when translating *from* Japanese (which uses no spaces at all within and between sentences) into, for instance, Italian, probably on the supposition that neither Italian needs a space after a full stop.

A few days ago I had an exchange with an Atril representative who said that this issue will be discussed internally, for he too believes that DVX should behave differently when Japanese is the source language. SDL Studio, which I am no fan of, adds spaces automatically in the target.

Since Atril seems to have its own stout idea on this issue I will no longer call it a bug, just an irritating inconvenience which requires an additional workaround to the detriment of productivity. On the other hand they have just fixed various bugs with Japanese and other oriental languages, a big step forward after many years.


 
mikhailo
mikhailo
Local time: 18:48
English to Russian
+ ...
re Feb 18, 2015

TO DO
1.
add BUTTON — go to NEXT EMPTY (TRANSLATION) SEGMENT
add HOTKEY — confirm and goto NEXT EMPTY
(don't tell about filter - Very few need EMPTY Segments out of context)

It's very useful to work with UPDATED files

2.
add opportunity to color different file segments in project view (all files segments) (with very pale colors just to see the difference without looking down)

3.
ADD CHECKBOX — automatically reset
... See more
TO DO
1.
add BUTTON — go to NEXT EMPTY (TRANSLATION) SEGMENT
add HOTKEY — confirm and goto NEXT EMPTY
(don't tell about filter - Very few need EMPTY Segments out of context)

It's very useful to work with UPDATED files

2.
add opportunity to color different file segments in project view (all files segments) (with very pale colors just to see the difference without looking down)

3.
ADD CHECKBOX — automatically reset MT status after manual segment editing

4.
What about PLACEABLES in TM?
For example
EN_US IT_IT
See page #(#=placeable) -> Vedi pag. #
# mm -> # mm

5.
ADD CHECKBOX «CHECK MATCHING ONLY FOR ALFABET SYMBOLS»
Example
Tired with NO 100% MATCH of «YES.» and «YES», «Introduction» and «1.2 Introduction», «dell'anima» and «dell’anima» segments that differ with numbers, spaces, apostrofes ' ‘ ’, quotes, etc. (may be checkbox - normalize spaces, apostrophes etc at import/export.)

6.
OPPORTUNITY TO COPY/PASTE WITH REPLACEMENT GROUP OF SEGMENTS without EX/IM to/from RTF

7.
For DVX 4 - add MEASURING UNITS CONVERSION UTILITY (or recognize in text and convert - Brit > Metric > Brit etc.) . You have a lot of empty place on BAD BAD RIBBON
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Deja vu X3 – bugs and areas to improve






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