| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Intellectual Property Right of Translation Memory Thread poster: Ritu Bhanot
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matt robinson 
Spain
Local time: 17:16
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
| How valuable is the TM? | Oct 21, 2016 |
I doubt if a direct client would be able to cobble together anything like a half-decent translation from TMs created during the handling of their documents. If they could and did, then they would be taking my job in-house. That is their decision, but is something which I have never experienced to date. The reverse is often true.
As for agencies, I really don't think TMs have an intrinsic value per se, but are probably used as part of their pitch to potential clients. The provision of a TM ... See more I doubt if a direct client would be able to cobble together anything like a half-decent translation from TMs created during the handling of their documents. If they could and did, then they would be taking my job in-house. That is their decision, but is something which I have never experienced to date. The reverse is often true.
As for agencies, I really don't think TMs have an intrinsic value per se, but are probably used as part of their pitch to potential clients. The provision of a TM may sound like a great idea in theory.
With regards to the provision of TMs as part of a project package, I have always approached them with extreme caution. A TM is only as good as the translator who created it! ▲ Collapse
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Every TM I've been asked to use has been the opposite of intellectual property
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:16
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| More a kind of... | Oct 21, 2016 |
Chris S wrote:
Every TM I've been asked to use has been the opposite of intellectual property
...intellectual liability?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:16
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Ross Smith's report and what you're talking about | Oct 21, 2016 |
See this thread from 2015 on this same report. It is important (very important) to realise that Ross Smith's report relates to TMs that are created by alignment without permission of the original authors. Smith concludes that the TM is a separate work, even if it was created by aligning someone else's source text and someone else's translation, and the creator of the TM itself (i.e. the person doing the alignment) is thus the copyright holder of the TM.
This has nothing to do with what you're talking about, namely the fact that clients re-use translations in TMs that are generated as a byproduct of the translation process.
[Edited at 2016-10-21 12:57 GMT]
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Dan Lucas wrote:
...intellectual liability?
Lol
Samuel Murray wrote:
Ross Smith's report relates to TMs that are created by alignment without permission of the original authors. Smith concludes that the TM is a separate work, even if it was created by aligning someone else's source text and someone else's translation, and the creator of the TM itself (i.e. the person doing the alignment) is thus the copyright holder of the TM.
Now that really is theft!
| | | | RobinB
United States
Local time: 10:16
German to English
| Ross Smith's report.... | Oct 21, 2016 |
....has been superseded by the COM study, which largely overturns its suggestions in any case. I also think that Smith's conclusions are misleading to the point where nobody would seriously wish to rely on them as a legal opinion.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:16
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| I'm sorry if this comes as a surprise to you | Oct 21, 2016 |
Ritu Bhanot wrote:
And the only reason these agencies have been asking us to use specific TM tools and asking for the TMs created by us is that we don't know.
This is a typical reaction from translators who discover for the first time that TMs are also leveraged by clients. You personally did not know, but most of us do know, and we have learnt not to mind. I'm sorry if this comes as a surprise to you, but this is how the world works and most of us don't even think about it.
Several agencies are trying to take advantage of our work. When we work the only thing that the agency and the end client has bought is "the translation". I refuse to sell intellectual property rights to my work for peanuts.
If the contract that you signed with the client does not specify who gets copyright of the translation, then a judge from a court will have to decide, if you or they decide to go to court about this. The judge will look at the situation and try to determine what are the most reasonable assumptions of both parties. It's anyone's guess what the judge will decide, but we can speculate.
1. The client commissions the translation because he wants to use the translation commercially (and the translator knows this), so it's reasonable to assume that your delivered translation automatically comes with a broad license to use the translation commercially. This is not the same as transfer of copyright, but it comes close to it.
2. If your client is an agency, then here's another thought: the client (agency) intends to sell the translation to someone else (and the translator knows this).
3. Practically the whole point of "translation memory" is to have the ability to re-use segments in subsequent translation assignments. So wouldn't it be perfectly reasonable to assume that both client and translator consents to each re-using segments from the translation memory in later translation jobs (if both client and translator can get their hands on the TM)?
I refuse to use TM tools, pay for it and suffer simply because someone else has decided that he/she is going to use it without paying anything.
Each translator must do what he feels is appropriate to stay competitive. Whatever you decide, it is your right.
I own Intellectual Property right on my Translation Memory. I am selling only a service and the client can use the translation and only the translation.
See my previous comment about how a judge will decide. If you want to make sure clients do not make the wrong assumptions about your relationship with them and/or the product/service that you sell, then you must make it clear in the agreement between you.
Note that if you want to work for clients who want to use your translation commercially, you're going to have to sell more than just "the translation and only the translation". But if you want to work for clients who only want translations for the sake of their own personal curiosity, then you are free to do that as well.
One thing that one must remember is that some of these organsiations/ agencies have been asking us to do online translation and the tool looks like an online version of Trados. It means that they are creating their own Translation Memory...
Yes. I'm sorry if this was a surprise to you. If you know other translators for whom this is not clear, please inform them and tell them that that is how translation memory driven applications actually work.
Another trick that some are trying is to request us to translate phrases to help create Automatic Translation Tools.
Yes, but creating automatic translation tools is not illegal, right? And someone has to translate those phrases. So if a client asks you to translate them, then he is not trying to "trick" you -- because he assumes that any reasonably intelligent person would know that phrases translated for automatic translation tools will eventually be used in automatic translation tools, which in turn will be used to help produce translations that will be used commercially at the end of the day.
Clients have the right to use the translation just like a reader uses a book that he/ she has purchased.
None of my clients want to have the translations simply because they want to read it. But like I said before, it is your right if you choose to work for such clients. But I think you should realise that most clients are not like that. Most clients actually want to use the translation, not just read it.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 17:16
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| The COM study? | Oct 21, 2016 |
RobinB wrote:
Ross Smith's report ... has been superseded by the COM study, which largely overturns its suggestions in any case.
What is the full name of "the COM study"? Extensive googling got me nowhere.
If you mean the Bird & Bird report, "Translation and Intellectual Property Rights (DGT/2013/TIPRs), July 2014", then I'm afraid I must say that that report doesn't really provide any guidance to the issue of copyright of translation memories -- it merely discusses various copyright issues of the four countries France, Belgium, Germany and the UK. In addition, it also defines a translation memory as a database that was created by alignment (and all of its conclusions are based on that unhelpful definition), and not as a database created as a byproduct of the translation process.
[Edited at 2016-10-21 15:41 GMT]
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