| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Can a client legally reject you because of your religion? Thread poster: Eric Stone
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Eric Stone
Taiwan
Local time: 13:12
Chinese to English
To be clear, the question is not of my knowledge of any particular religion in question, expertise in religious texts, etc., but rather what religion I believe.
The reason I ask is because a client is asking me to fill out a 'CV' that asks me what religion is subscribe to (the potential client is a religious group).
If, hypothetically, this client explicitly told me they were rejecting me as a vendor based on my religious beliefs, would they be within their leg... See more To be clear, the question is not of my knowledge of any particular religion in question, expertise in religious texts, etc., but rather what religion I believe.
The reason I ask is because a client is asking me to fill out a 'CV' that asks me what religion is subscribe to (the potential client is a religious group).
If, hypothetically, this client explicitly told me they were rejecting me as a vendor based on my religious beliefs, would they be within their legal rights (in the USA)? Do they even have the right to ask?
Thanks, ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/1#1 - Postings which are political, religious, or otherwise controversial in nature, or that may be considered offensive by other users, will be removed without regard to the views expressed. | Jo Macdonald 
Spain
Local time: 07:12
Italian to English
+ ...
| Legal and practical | Feb 2, 2017 |
From a legal and moral point of view I have to agree with Tom but from a practical point of view I can imagine a religious group preferring someone who shares their religious beliefs to write their translations rather than someone who doesn't.
[Edited at 2017-02-02 17:53 GMT]
| | | | Lianne van de Ven
United States
Local time: 01:12
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
| Discrimination is prohibited | Feb 2, 2017 |
If they want someone with expertise in a particular field, they need to ask for expertise, not for "user experience." Discrimination is often difficult to prove but religion is a private issue and should not be asked for.
And I guess I ... See more If they want someone with expertise in a particular field, they need to ask for expertise, not for "user experience." Discrimination is often difficult to prove but religion is a private issue and should not be asked for.
And I guess I am incorrect about that...:
http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/outside-voices-careers/2012/02/06/10-shattered-myths-about-workplace-rights
[Edited at 2017-02-02 18:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:12
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| You might need an expert in HR | Feb 2, 2017 |
Eric S. wrote:
If, hypothetically, this client explicitly told me they were rejecting me as a vendor based on my religious beliefs, would they be within their legal rights (in the USA)? Do they even have the right to ask?
This is an interesting question. Suppose that the putative employer/contractor is an activist organization that works to defend the right of gay men to engage fully in society without discrimination. Suppose also that the freelance translator is a deeply committed member of a strict religious sect that sincerely believes (amongst other things) that gay men are committing terrible sins, for which they should be punished in various ways.
Should the activist organization be allowed to reject this freelancer for his religious beliefs, inasmuch as those beliefs appear to be inimical to the goals and the raison d'etre of the organization? Or should the law require that the organization ignore those beliefs? Presumably, such issues seldom arise in the real world simply because the employer and subcontractor would in most cases prefer not to work with each other. But it's a tricky one.
If this matters to you a great deal, and especially if you think it is an issue that will crop up again in future, you may well be advised to seek advice from a professional in this field. As a practical matter, I suspect it would be rather difficult to prove that an agency gave a project to a freelancer (or withheld it) because of their religion.
Regards
Dan
| | | | | To answer your question literally.... | Feb 2, 2017 |
.... NO! At least not in the so called 'free world'. 40-45 is behind us. Maybe wrong client?
[Edited at 2017-02-02 19:00 GMT]
| | | | The Misha
Local time: 01:12
Russian to English
+ ...
| You are confusing your apples with oranges | Feb 2, 2017 |
There are indeed certain things employers in the US cannot legally do - such as discriminate based on gender, national or ethnic origin, religion, age, etc. - but they often do it anyway and for more reasons than we have fingers on both hands. However, as the link posted above clearly illustrates, these prohibitions are regularly misunderstood, and anyhow, in most cases you will never know, let alone have an actionable case even if the employer is located in the same jurisdiction with you. If yo... See more There are indeed certain things employers in the US cannot legally do - such as discriminate based on gender, national or ethnic origin, religion, age, etc. - but they often do it anyway and for more reasons than we have fingers on both hands. However, as the link posted above clearly illustrates, these prohibitions are regularly misunderstood, and anyhow, in most cases you will never know, let alone have an actionable case even if the employer is located in the same jurisdiction with you. If you are a foreigner (such as a Taiwanese national vis-a-vis a US employer), the situation becomes quite murky in legal terms. Again, it is highly unlikely you will have a case that could be upheld in court. This has nothing to do with Donald Trump - no more anyway than with Barack Obama, or spots on the sun for that matter.
However, none of this seems to have anything to do with you because "client" in your title presumes a client-contractor rather than employer-employee relationship. A client is absolutely free to reject you or not use your services for any reason whatsoever and owes you no explanation as to why the hell and what the !@#$. Hey, maybe he didn't like your picture, or the sound of your name. Or maybe they don't quite know where Taiwan is (which most of my fellow Americans don't, I am sorry to say).
Life isn't fair and there is only that much the law can do about it. Get over it. Find another client. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Clarisa Moraña
United States
Local time: 00:12
Member (2002)
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Which country? | Feb 2, 2017 |
Not in Argentina. That won't be legal. A client might ask you about your backgrounds, but not about your religious beliefs when hiring you. Perhaps if you are requested to translate some documentation of a X religion, the potential client would like you to belong to that X religion, assuming that you have better knowledge of the subject matter (the same happens when they ask you to to be an engineer for translating technical documentation, or a doctor for medical subjets, as clients sometimes ig... See more Not in Argentina. That won't be legal. A client might ask you about your backgrounds, but not about your religious beliefs when hiring you. Perhaps if you are requested to translate some documentation of a X religion, the potential client would like you to belong to that X religion, assuming that you have better knowledge of the subject matter (the same happens when they ask you to to be an engineer for translating technical documentation, or a doctor for medical subjets, as clients sometimes ignore that a translator is a professional that can achieve a good translation without being someone with a university degree in such areas).
I did a quick browse in the web and found the following regarding the USA.
§60-50.2 Equal employment policy.
(a) General requirements. Under the equal opportunity clause contained in section 202 of Executive Order 11246, as amended, employers are prohibited from discriminating against employees or applicants for employment because of religion or national origin, and must take affirmative action to insure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their religion or national origin. Such action includes, but is not limited to the following: Employment, upgrading, demotion, or transfer: Recruitment or recruitment advertising; layoff or termination; rates of pay or other forms of compensation; and selection for training, including apprenticeship.
(b) Outreach and positive recruitment. Employers shall review their employment practices to determine whether members of the various religious and/or ethnic groups are receiving fair consideration for job opportunities. Special attention shall be directed toward executive and middle-management levels, where employment problems relating to religion and national origin are most likely to occur.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=3b71cb5b215c393fe910604d33c9fed1&rgn=div5&view=text&node=41:1.2.3.1.8&idno=41
Kind regards
Clarisa ▲ Collapse
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DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| Agnostic, I believe | Feb 2, 2017 |
Any consumer can choose what they prefer; any client has a right to choose what fits better, including a vendor, while the vendor can still consider and negotiate the deal, if any. That's ok.
For instance, a medical client would require a specialist with a medical background whereas a building company would certainly prefer a translator with specialization in their field and so on. Why not?
It's the matter of many things, not only biz, terminology and styl... See more Any consumer can choose what they prefer; any client has a right to choose what fits better, including a vendor, while the vendor can still consider and negotiate the deal, if any. That's ok.
For instance, a medical client would require a specialist with a medical background whereas a building company would certainly prefer a translator with specialization in their field and so on. Why not?
It's the matter of many things, not only biz, terminology and style, and that's ok (even in the Age of 'peaced-prized' minority). ▲ Collapse
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 01:12
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Eric S. wrote:
If, hypothetically, this client explicitly told me they were rejecting me as a vendor based on my religious beliefs, would they be within their legal rights (in the USA)? Do they even have the right to ask?
Thanks,
Even if this client is rejecting you as a vendor, do they even need to tell you why? Or do they even need to tell you that you have been rejected at all?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 07:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Yes, I think they can | Feb 2, 2017 |
Eric S. wrote:
A client (in the USA) is asking me to fill out a 'CV' that asks me what religion is subscribe to (the potential client is a religious group).
It is my understanding that an employer (and perhaps also a client, but who knows?) in the United States whose business is related to religion is allowed to require candidates to be of that religion.
The employer is not allowed to require candidates to be of another religion, however. For example, a Muslim employer may not require that a certain position be filled by a Christian (or by a non-Muslim), but is allowed to require that it be filled by a Muslim.
Also, such an employer may only discriminate on the basis of the religion itself, and not on the basis of what that religion believes is right or wrong. For example, if such an employer believes that homosexuality is entirely incompatible with that religion, then the fact that they are allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion does not mean that they are allowed to discriminate against candidates purely because they claim to be homosexual.
Lianne van de Ven wrote:
Religion is a private issue and should not be asked for.
The reason why religion should not be asked for (except in specified exceptional cases) is not because it "is a private issue", but because the government decided that it is illegal to discriminate against anyone because of their religion. In some religions, religion is not a private issue, but it's still illegal to discriminate on the basis of it.
[Edited at 2017-02-02 21:21 GMT]
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 07:12
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Interesting topic | Feb 2, 2017 |
Dan Lucas wrote:
Suppose that the putative employer/contractor is an activist organization that works to defend the right of gay men to engage fully in society without discrimination. Suppose also that the freelance translator is a deeply committed member of a strict religious sect that sincerely believes (amongst other things) that gay men are committing terrible sins, for which they should be punished in various ways. ... Should the activist organization be allowed to reject this freelancer for his religious beliefs, inasmuch as those beliefs appear to be inimical to the goals and the raison d'etre of the organization?
Yes, that is a bit more complicated, in my [albeit very limited] understanding of the situation in the United States. And it would be interesting to hear from US translators about this. It would certainly be illegal for that organisation to reject the anti-gay candidate on the basis of his religion.
I suspect (but I'm not sure) it would also be illegal to reject him on the basis of being anti-gay, unless he's applying for a position in which being pro-gay is a fundamental requirement. For example, if he is applying to be a driver or a janitor, then since the fact that an opinion about homosexuality does not affect one's suitability for being a driver or a janitor, he can't be discriminated against for being anti-gay.
The Misha wrote:
However, none of this seems to have anything to do with you because ... a "client" is absolutely free to reject you or not use your services for any reason whatsoever and owes you no explanation as to why.
I think you're right, but I also suspect that translator-agency relationships can sometimes be more complex than that.
The translator is sometimes also a "client", in some sense. I mean, the translator is the agency's client in the sense that the agency is providing a service to the translator, in that the agency adds the translator to its database of service providers and the agency helps to connect a translator and an end-client, while taking care of some of the administration. Not all translator-agency relationships are like that (most are not), but some are.
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Lincoln Hui
Hong Kong
Local time: 13:12
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Skipping straight to the chase | Feb 2, 2017 |
Given your language pair and the description of the project, I believe that it would be best if you did not pursue it.
| | | | | Depends on the religion | Feb 2, 2017 |
If you are a christian, then, yes, it is ok to discriminate you. That's called positive discrimination and it is a very good thing.
[Edited at 2017-02-03 08:07 GMT]
| | | | | Yes, they would be entitled | Feb 3, 2017 |
If they are a religious organization, clearly they will want that their translators practice their religion in particular, not because of discrimination, but for practical reasons: they need a translator who is very acquainted with the religion in question. In my opinion, they are entitled to choosing their freelance translators based upon their own criteria.
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