| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Agency policy updates re: the economy and our rates Thread poster: MGL
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| Nothing to add... | Dec 15, 2008 |
Charlie Bavington wrote: Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
I was warning, nobody listened. There are a couple of people here who think they know everything
Ain't that the truth.
| | | | | Where to start? | Dec 15, 2008 |
Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:
1) It's not "one agency", so far it's many of them.
None (that's a big fat zero) of my agencies have asked me to reduce my rates.
2) What's the difference between "less work" and "reduction in rates"? Either way, your income is down.
Not mine - my rates are up and I'm still flat out...
3) It's not a "crystal ball", it's all economic indicators.
It may be that there will be a general downturn at the less specialised end of the market (I'm no analyst, I haven't a clue), but as so many people have pointed out time and again our sector is so wide-ranging that talking about a general trend is probably meaningless. What about financial translators - aren't they likely to see more business, not less, when all anyone's talking about is the economy? Or legal translators - bound to be a few multinational bankruptcies coming up? Or my own field - clinical trials don't just stop in a recession, and all that documentation still needs to be translated...
Well, I'm not a betting woman, I'm a translator... and a fully employed one, for the time being.
In real prices (inflation) translators' real income is going down for 10 years now (it used to be 12-14 cents 10 years ago, depending on language pairs).
That's not income, that's a rate. While rate obviously does affect income, it's certainly not the only factor that does. In any case, I don't see how you can categorically state a rate that specific across the board - there are way too many factors involved. And speaking personally, both my rate and my income have been going up year on year.
Now, on top of it, we have the severe economic crises which affects agencies as well.
Possibly... it remains to be seen, in my field and pair (or even just for me personally).
[Edited at 2008-12-15 18:29 GMT]
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Charlie Bavington wrote: Yeah, 'cos like, we get free laptops with our petrol and stuff, you know 
Awwww man! If I had known that, I would've definitely upped my price by 50%!
| | | | Laura Tridico 
United States
Local time: 21:32
French to English
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| I may not know everything... | Dec 15, 2008 |
but its clear that some folks around view the translation industry as destined for failure. Maybe I'm naive, but in my view that's an attitude that leads to failure. If I believed that, I certainly wouldn't stick around.
I take a different approach: evaluate the challenges in today's industry and prepare to meet them head-on. Evaluate my own skills and weaknesses. Market myself to people who are looking for quality and are willing to pay for it. Focus on the upper end of the market ... See more but its clear that some folks around view the translation industry as destined for failure. Maybe I'm naive, but in my view that's an attitude that leads to failure. If I believed that, I certainly wouldn't stick around.
I take a different approach: evaluate the challenges in today's industry and prepare to meet them head-on. Evaluate my own skills and weaknesses. Market myself to people who are looking for quality and are willing to pay for it. Focus on the upper end of the market and don't be distracted by those seeking low cost translations. Position my business to take advantage of future growth opportunities.
There will always be clients who need quality, just like there will always be those who prefer to cut costs. These are tough times, and I don't expect to be immune to price pressures. BUT, there are ways to offset the crunch - I am always looking for new clients in my target market, because the broader my client base, better I can withstand price pressures.
For example, if you have 10 clients and two of them attempt to impose a rate decrease, you are in a strong position to reject the lower rates outright. Either your clients accept your word and continue sending work at your old rates, or they won't - and you can continue working for your eight remaining clients while continuing to expand your client base. At the end of the day, you can put yourself in a strong position for the market rebound that will eventually come (though it may be a while...).
Now I'll sit back and await the inevitable response... ▲ Collapse
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| Tough luck. I refuse to lower my rates. Are we getting discount in any service or goods? | Dec 15, 2008 |
Here we go again. Same old song. We are being bullied and pestered by the price wars. Yet again, business as usual.
Now that we become baffled every day to the tune of schocking news headlines about a new financial hole, scandals, grim economical outlook, foreclosures, factores downsizing, growing unemployment: you get the picture.
But it was only 1 year ago, even few months ago when there was no recession going on, and yet agencies and clients were equally putting pres... See more Here we go again. Same old song. We are being bullied and pestered by the price wars. Yet again, business as usual.
Now that we become baffled every day to the tune of schocking news headlines about a new financial hole, scandals, grim economical outlook, foreclosures, factores downsizing, growing unemployment: you get the picture.
But it was only 1 year ago, even few months ago when there was no recession going on, and yet agencies and clients were equally putting pressure on us to decrease rates, get discounts, accept large volumes with tight deadlines, and so on.
Excuses, I mean, reasons at the time were: growing competition, other service providers offering cheaper services, client's deadlines, growing market demand: you name it.
I, out of principle, refuse to lower my rate. I know colleagues who earned the same rate.. back in 1992!
A few statements of my own:
- The same way agencies and clients have (pressumibly) lower budgets, but so do we (allegedly)
- It is not anyone's fault, but the financial system itself and its lack of regulation; Not to do with my work, or their performance. So, nothing to do with me.
Therefore, if they cannot match my rates, they are simply no longer profitable to my translation business.
Simply in the same way I would NOT offer my translation services any longer if, for example, I suffered from memory loss, and I were not able to resort to my language skills.
- As I am not getting discounts anywhere (here in Spain at least) apart from a few clothing items and superficial consumable goods I currently do not need (and can live without very well, thank you so much Mr and Ms Market Forces), I cannot see the logic of this pricing downward pressure.
- Luckily, I have a ''stable'' income, so I do not need to dump market prices, neither should I: Once prices decrease, clients do find unfair, even outrageous to pay back the previous price.
Hence I refuse to dig my hole in the grave, or shoot myself in the foot. Call it whatever you like it.
Quite frankly, I would rather work in a manual job, for the same money, but seeing my wages going up, rather than down
- Hey, folks, do you really buy the idea that *all* companies have less profits? Have you checked their output/earnings?
I mean, check the new for some oil producing ones, pharmaceutical, goverment ones, mobile ones, army industries, and the like. And some banks too.
Precisely, if there is a crisis, we have no other option but to maintain rates, as we are bound to be assigned less translations!
That is the logic behind our sector!
-Certains books still have to be translated the same way, whether it sells 2,000 copies, or 35,000.
And the same goes to medicine labels, and to technical handbooks.
These are my 5 cents.
Alfredo
[Edited at 2008-12-15 21:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vadim Pogulyaev
Thailand
Local time: 08:32
Member (2007)
English to Russian
| No, not the end of story | Dec 15, 2008 |
Agency
We do not wish to lose your services... please reconsider...
Me (trial shot)
I am sorry, but it seems to be the only way.
It's all about straight dealing, mutual respect, goodwill and other traits, essential for successful B2B relationships.
I don't think, that you have called your energy company, and told them, that you've unilaterally decided to reduce energy dues because of economy crisis. How would they react? Yeah, that's obvious.
Why do you think, that translation vendors are different?
I have like 30 customers around the world with rates ranging from X-Y eurocents, that's large MLVs, to Z-V eurocents, that's value-buying agencies and direct clients. You can see, that my approach to rates is flexible and differentiated.
Apart from the above categories, there are two companies, who get X-1 eurocents, just because they are "price-sensitive". (Our dearest agency) is one of them. Another one starts with 'X'.
And now you tell me, that my rate will be reduced. Rate, which is already lower-than-low, priveleged, and discounted.
How should I react? Just like energy company would.
First, a polite no. Second, a goodbye.
The biggest problem, is that reduction of rates might be the 1st step only, then there may be other unilateral decisions, like applying 10+% discounts to due invoices etc.
So it's no and goodbye.
Copyr... left statement:
Note that this message is officially copyleft, meaning that it can be used as a whole or in parts anywhere, anyhow, and for any purpose without referring me as the author.
| | | | Khrystene (X)
Australia
Polish to English
+ ...
| What's the "R" word? | Dec 15, 2008 |
Ridiculous?
Redundant?
Reprehensible.... *grumbles*
| | | | | perspective (tongue in cheek humor) | Dec 16, 2008 |
Among all the independent professions I am familiar with, it seems that translators (and to a lesser extent writers) concentrate the "client sets the rate" approach and "ohmeestars-theyaresqueezingmelikealemon" panick attacks.
My gardener, cleaning person, dentist, lawyer, accountant, hairdresser, plumber, electrician, painter, carpenter, printer, designer, mechanic, shoe repair guy, programmer, etc... have raised their rates.
If I, as a client, told them, "well, gee, t... See more Among all the independent professions I am familiar with, it seems that translators (and to a lesser extent writers) concentrate the "client sets the rate" approach and "ohmeestars-theyaresqueezingmelikealemon" panick attacks.
My gardener, cleaning person, dentist, lawyer, accountant, hairdresser, plumber, electrician, painter, carpenter, printer, designer, mechanic, shoe repair guy, programmer, etc... have raised their rates.
If I, as a client, told them, "well, gee, times are tough, thus I am lowering your fee by X percent", they'd walk.
Do any or all these profiles have more self-confidence than translators? Are they better marketers? Are their services more important or more rare or more specialized than ours?
C'mon people, buck up!!!
Patricia ▲ Collapse
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Béatrice (X)
France
Local time: 03:32
English to French
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Rates are one thing and I agree totally with my fellow translators' reactions on this point. This attitude which does not give room to negociation is not acceptable. Basic respect is just human.
As a top translator I have worked for them for many years now helping them out in "delicate" situations several times. The irony is that I had just put in a favourable comment for this company and expressed my willingnes to work with them again as a new Prozian. A few days later, they only a... See more Rates are one thing and I agree totally with my fellow translators' reactions on this point. This attitude which does not give room to negociation is not acceptable. Basic respect is just human.
As a top translator I have worked for them for many years now helping them out in "delicate" situations several times. The irony is that I had just put in a favourable comment for this company and expressed my willingnes to work with them again as a new Prozian. A few days later, they only ask everyone to reduced their reasonable rates without any consideration for performance, not to say for the individual.
In fact, their staff has changed over the years and the quality is plunging. I do understand that good self-employed free-lance translators have decided to leave this company. This is not a good strategy of theirs in the long run and it should not be encouraged. I am not going to reply to what I consider an insult to my work and loyalty to this company. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Béatrice (X)
France
Local time: 03:32
English to French
+ ...
| Competition is the nerve of enterprise | Dec 16, 2008 |
Dear Laura,
May I address you my compliments for your strategy. We should stop sticking to old European ways of thoughts, looking back in the past. It is high time we start handling in a clever and profitable manner, assessing our capabilities and looking forward. As you point out, time is the only limiting factor which is a universal truth anyway. Thanks again for your very helpful contribution.
| | | | | Well, since you asked | Dec 16, 2008 |
Patricia Lane wrote:
Do any or all these profiles have more self-confidence than translators? Are they better marketers? Are their services more important or more rare or more specialized than ours?
C'mon people, buck up!!!
One is hesitant, especially in the light of my previous slightly sarky comment, but here is some WIP on the topic: http://www.cbavington.com/Economics.htm
I must dash, my valet is being bothersome about some shoelaces.
| | | | | Great analysis, Charlie | Dec 16, 2008 |
Makes sense.
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Liked your article, Charlie and the tone in which you wrote it.
I generally agree with your arguments, save perhaps where you venture to including sellers of items (produced or manufactured) rather than of services where the object of the transaction is the combination of time+skill+expertise. I'm sure you've seen the terrific piece "Translation: Buying a Non-Commodity" (available for download on ITI's website). Your website's homepage also supports that angle (nice hook, Jeeves!).... See more Liked your article, Charlie and the tone in which you wrote it.
I generally agree with your arguments, save perhaps where you venture to including sellers of items (produced or manufactured) rather than of services where the object of the transaction is the combination of time+skill+expertise. I'm sure you've seen the terrific piece "Translation: Buying a Non-Commodity" (available for download on ITI's website). Your website's homepage also supports that angle (nice hook, Jeeves!).
Back to work
Patricia ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Very nice, Charlie! | Dec 16, 2008 |
I like the site (though the yellow shocks me a bit), and I think your analysis is pretty much spot on.
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There is a very popular perception in our industry, which is that there are more suppliers than there are buyers. I don't believe this.
Just in the past month, two of my clients asked me (!) to go headhunting for them because they simply couldn't find a competent English to French translator who is able to translate general technical stuff (not very specialized). There may be more people trying to sell translation services than there are buyers for those services, but there aren't m... See more There is a very popular perception in our industry, which is that there are more suppliers than there are buyers. I don't believe this.
Just in the past month, two of my clients asked me (!) to go headhunting for them because they simply couldn't find a competent English to French translator who is able to translate general technical stuff (not very specialized). There may be more people trying to sell translation services than there are buyers for those services, but there aren't more competent translators than there are translation service buyers. Just yesterday, I was on the phone with a colleague, and he confirmed this: there just aren't enough competent people out there.
So, in the ideal world where buyers would only give work to competent people, there aren't enough suppliers. Of course, we don't live in an ideal world and buyers do award contracts to people who aren't competent enough to deliver the quality product the client is expecting (they don't really have the choice - there simply aren't enough competent people to handle all the work). This may explain why many buyers aren't interested in getting quotes and prefer to set their own rates - they don't think we deserve to determine how much our work is worth, and in many cases, they are right.
I think that perhaps the most important tool to achieve a suitable negotiating climate is to offer our services to people who recognize that it is a quality service. As Kevin has said earlier in another thread, people who understand quality are people who know that quality comes at a price. Then, there is also the question of specialization. As Charlie said in his article, if you are the only one out of a thousand suppliers who is able to get the work done properly, than the client will most likely let you name your price and will likely pay that price, too.
More importantly, true professionals should do all they can to educate their clients and the general public in order to allow them to distinguish between bona fide translators and wannabes, whose numbers have increased so much in the past few years that, because of them, even true professional translators are fooled into believing that there are too many suppliers for the number of buyers.
[Edited at 2008-12-16 17:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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