| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | How to convey the worth of our time Thread poster: Anabel Martínez
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Anabel Martínez 
Spain
Local time: 02:44
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Some clients are understanding about urgency | Sep 13, 2012 |
Hello again, and thanks for all of the ideas! I think this is a very interesting topic in any case; we have all found ourselves in the position of having to translate short pieces I imagine
Not of all the jobs are urgent at all, that's not really the problem here, only sometimes, and then I guess I have the free pass of saying I am not available and that's it. The problem is that I already have other clients giving me... See more Hello again, and thanks for all of the ideas! I think this is a very interesting topic in any case; we have all found ourselves in the position of having to translate short pieces I imagine
Not of all the jobs are urgent at all, that's not really the problem here, only sometimes, and then I guess I have the free pass of saying I am not available and that's it. The problem is that I already have other clients giving me small jobs, or queries to answer, etc., which are not profitable in themselves, but are part of my business relations with them, since they give me much larger projects which do feed me
If I add up all of the small projects, queries, etc., that I do any given day, it can amount to several hours sometimes. Just imagine having one or two bigger projects to do. That means that my working day already has more hours than I can handle. Then imagine having that situation every day for several months, and having to work weekends to make up for the wasted time during the week. The result, as I know very well, is major burnout...
What I am trying to say is, there has come a point when it really does not matter whether the client will give me one day to complete the 200 words job. I am already exhausted from having to switch tasks back and forth, keep up with the real projects, etc. Those fillers I do not think I need nor want at this stage. Even though I am well aware of how scary it is to have several days with hardly any work at all, such days are necessary to recover from the exhaustion of demanding periods. I lack that at the moment due to works that I don't really care about, and I don't know how to make such clients understand that I cannot keep up with everyone's demands, even if they think they are very small and will only take me five minutes... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 01:44
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| It pays to discuss these things, I find | Sep 13, 2012 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
A minimum rate won't work because these tiny bits of text form part of a larger, continuous project for their end-client.
I don't see the difference at all, Samuel, in fact your situation is the same as mine. The agency passes on their client's translation requests as they receive them; I charge the agency as I see fit (see my earlier email). I neither know nor care (well, not very much, anyway ) on what basis the agency charges their client. They could even be presenting their client with freebies, though I seriously doubt it!
BTW I agree that my minimum rate is very low, but I'm not overloaded with work much of the time and these are valued clients, who regularly send bigger chunks too. If I was in Anabel's situation, I probably would raise them considerably.
I simply tell the client that I'm very busy with a job that has a deadline today, and that I'll deal with their job by midnight (or by SOB the next day).
. . .
when I get a job that would be a weekend job, I simply propose a new deadline on the Monday or Tuesday.
Well, I certainly wouldn't offer to deliver at midnight , but for clients where we have established a certain amount of trust, I find that 'before EOB' one day can often be changed to 'by SOB' on the next, or EOB Friday changes to SOB Monday. If it's ready sooner, then I'll deliver sooner, but it's useful to have more flexibility, even if I do have to get up early to do the final proofreading. On the other hand, if that valued client really does have a rush job, and it doesn't clash with other commitments, they may get it back just as fast as I can type it, with no surcharge.
And yes, I reserve the right to decide whether or not I work at the weekend. If the client imposes a deadline which will make weekend work inevitable, then they may well have to pay extra. In actual fact, I'm particularly wary of all these urgent jobs that are posted on Friday pm, for delivery first thing Monday. It couldn't be a bum job that they don't want to be contacted about before the conscientious translator delivers on time, could it? But maybe I'm showing my age - I used to be that over-conscientious translator!
| | | | | Fight back where it hurts | Sep 13, 2012 |
How to convey the worth of our time?
The wallet: 15 euros per disruption for any amount of time from 1 sec to 10 min all inclusive. People tend to understand very quickly and really weigh the usefulness of sending queries one at a time over a week instead of grouping them once a day. And you don't necessarily lose them for larger jobs.
A favour remains a favour as long as the sum of them doesn't outweigh productive, well-paid work.
When you're swamped in w... See more How to convey the worth of our time?
The wallet: 15 euros per disruption for any amount of time from 1 sec to 10 min all inclusive. People tend to understand very quickly and really weigh the usefulness of sending queries one at a time over a week instead of grouping them once a day. And you don't necessarily lose them for larger jobs.
A favour remains a favour as long as the sum of them doesn't outweigh productive, well-paid work.
When you're swamped in work, even a 3 min task is very straining and counter-productive. A non-insignificant, albeit reasonable, fee will hit home and compensate in part for the trouble.
Oh, and weekend surcharge, of course.
Philippe ▲ Collapse
| | | | Shai Navé
Israel
Local time: 03:44
English to Hebrew
+ ...
| Time wastes and energy drainers are usually also disrespectful | Sep 13, 2012 |
Sheila gave good advices, and I can only echo them.
But, the main point to remember here is that you are a service provider and they are your clients. Many clients (agencies and direct) often forget or don't think of this relationship as collaboration between two independent business partners, and treat the service provider as their employee. This causes several issues in the long run so things must be cleared as early as possible.
Another characteristic of time wasting and en... See more Sheila gave good advices, and I can only echo them.
But, the main point to remember here is that you are a service provider and they are your clients. Many clients (agencies and direct) often forget or don't think of this relationship as collaboration between two independent business partners, and treat the service provider as their employee. This causes several issues in the long run so things must be cleared as early as possible.
Another characteristic of time wasting and energy draining clients is their disrespect, out of ignorance or simply because they don't value your work (or you - as their business partner), with the result being requests such as you have described for small "favors", lack of appreciation of your work and time, and expecting you to do their bidding, and on a moment notice nonetheless.
Usually, if several education attempts of such clients fail, I think that it is best to let them go. The fear of "firing" clients, that we all share to a certain degree, is debilitating business-wise and more often than not leads us to wrong decisions.
The time and energy invested in this type of clients may generate income in the short run, but in the long run that effort prevents you from developing yourself and your business, leads to burn out, and otherwise prevents you from doing more important things that would benefit much more. Letting go of a client may cause a little dent in the short time income, but in the broader perspective it would allow you to attract more lucrative clients.
If you don't want to work with them I suggest letting them go. Making them know that you no longer wish to work with them. However, if they still have some value to you, and even in general, I suggest first to contact them, explain, politely but firmly, that the current matters of affairs is not working for you and that from this point forward you will employ the following policy:
1) You are most often not available on a moment notice, and you will deliver each project within X business days (unless you prefer to respond each time with a specific deadline), unless otherwise agreed.
2) You are also not available to respond to communications on a moment notice, and all communications will be addressed within X hours (12-24 might be acceptable).
3) In addition to the per task/monthly invoice minimum charges, suggest to the clients to accumulate several small tasks and send them to you, say, twice a week in larger drops. You will not start working on them right away either, but this is a more substantial approach.
(this is only a general suggestion of course).
Then, politely but firmly refuse to do any favors (especially for this type of clients, this is a one way street), do not waste time, every time, to explain that you are not available or to listen to their ridiculous attempts to convince you that this is only a small task.
They might test you out a couple of times, or it might just take them some time to adapt to the new guidelines, so a little leeway might be needed at first, but if after a reasonable while, despite best of intentions on your side, things remain unchanged, it is an indicator that you probably be better off without them. Those clients are really not worth fighting for because they are an anchor.
[Edited at 2012-09-13 14:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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| This surely looks like me | Sep 13, 2012 |
Anabel Martínez wrote: Hello everyone, I am sure this is a very common issue, but I find it harder and harder to deal with. Let me explain: Client A wants me to translate a small piece for them. They are a new client, and I never wondered if their texts would always be THIS small (say 50 - 200 words). I do not even stop and think, I just say yes and do it. It so happens that they send me these kinds of texts, even expecting me to reply during the weekends (I pointedly replied on Monday that I do not work on weekends). Client B sends me several small pieces per day, and bigger ones from time to time, as well as multiple queries, small favors such as "could you please look at this small text and tell me if it is correct?", etc. Both clients are direct, so the rate is fair enough, but it is not a matter of rates in this case. Both clients act quite surprised if I say I am not available for a small piece; they just say it will take me five minutes (which of course it won't). The problem is, for several months now I have found myself in the lucky position of having a lot of work, and I feel burned out. Aside from big projects, having to deal with these small pieces on a daily basis has stolen me a lot of time, since every client is always going to say it will be five minutes, and I lose a couple hours that I could have devoted to resting my tired brain. The even bigger problem is how to make these clients understand that I really am not available for small texts on a daily basis, since it requires a lot of mental effort and I feel the strain. I can do them from time to time, of course, but I cannot go on like that. I tried to "enforce" a minimum charge, but one client begged me not to do it. To be honest, my minimum charge would need to be made of golden nuggets for me to want to do those jobs anyway. What I crave is the free time. Now my question is, how would you deal with this particular situation? Thank you very much, and sorry for the looong whiney post Anabel
From several years ago. I had to stop working for a number of clients who gave me such small jobs very regularly, because I felt physical exhaustion from such small jobs that get invoiced on a monthly basis for a total of say 30-50 euros. The time you need to physically and mentally leave the job you are working on, to open up the new message and the new job and see what it is about, and also it may and often does have some special instructions to it, to save it on your computer, (DO IT - this is the only thing you get paid for), and then mail it back, invoice for it, track down whether the payment has been made and if it has not, send inquiry mails and all that sort of things - it really does not pay off to invest so much energy for such small amounts. And also, once I deduct the bank fees, it gets even much less than that. And it is not only that, one also gets physically and mentally exhausted and is then good for nothing. I was only wasting my time and energy. Believe me, you will have to either do the same thing I did, or really, really increase your rates for such small jobs. And I mean golden nuggets that you mentioned. And when I thought of the hassle about telling that to clients, this is what I did not want to do, because I knew they would never understand, and this is why I simply stopped replying. I am not under-rating any jobs now, and I am willing and I do regularly do small jobs for my regular clients who often send me larger jobs as well, but with that decision I am now much calmer with myself than I was at that time. Sometimes I now still receive small jobs from some (new) clients and just do them once without charging (it is small anyway), and then ask the client if they plan on having any bigger jobs in the future, and if they say they do not know, I just stop replying. That's it. Rgs
| | | | Inga Petkelyte
Portugal
Local time: 01:44
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
| Minimum rate | Sep 13, 2012 |
I had this problem several years ago and that disproprtion between the time spent and the charge had started being uncomfortable, in all meanings.
So what did I do? Came to ProZ, of course, for consolation and ideas I looked throughmany topics and got this brilliant indirect advice on setting up a minimum rate.
In fact, I set up such rules for the clients:
1) A text up to 1/2 page is considered a 1/2 page and cha... See more I had this problem several years ago and that disproprtion between the time spent and the charge had started being uncomfortable, in all meanings.
So what did I do? Came to ProZ, of course, for consolation and ideas I looked throughmany topics and got this brilliant indirect advice on setting up a minimum rate.
In fact, I set up such rules for the clients:
1) A text up to 1/2 page is considered a 1/2 page and charged as 1/2 pg. +x;
2) A text between 1/2 and 1 page is equated to 1 page and charged like that.
Still I find it doesn't cover my time, for it's not only about the translation itself but also the related admin time... Doesn't pay off in most cases, but helps a little in managing my time better. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Parrot
Spain
Local time: 02:44
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Queue-jumping | Sep 13, 2012 |
I don't really mind small jobs, and I do enforce a minimum. But as the topic of queue-jumping has been raised, my 2 cents:
I guarantee a minimum turnover of X words per day (language use is an instantaneous process and I'm a fast typist). "Day" is defined as 24 hours, and I can more or less plot how the hours are allocated. But there will be clients wanting 2000 words in the morning for "before lunch". That's regular rate + 50%. They didn't give me my 24 hours.
I clearl... See more I don't really mind small jobs, and I do enforce a minimum. But as the topic of queue-jumping has been raised, my 2 cents:
I guarantee a minimum turnover of X words per day (language use is an instantaneous process and I'm a fast typist). "Day" is defined as 24 hours, and I can more or less plot how the hours are allocated. But there will be clients wanting 2000 words in the morning for "before lunch". That's regular rate + 50%. They didn't give me my 24 hours.
I clearly explain that, just because it can be done doesn't mean they have the right to queue-jump. I'm displacing other clients entitled to their allocation through no fault of those others. The heavens have been so fair as to give us all 24 hours a day. My time, the other clients' time and their time are all equally valuable. If, to meet the other due deliveries, I have to do overtime, has to be accounted for by the party/ies causing that overtime.
(If there's anything I've learned from my clients who bill per hour, it goes without saying that there are ceilings and I can't charge the production equivalent of more than 24 hours per day). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anabel Martínez
Spain
Local time: 02:44
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Feeling helpess | Sep 14, 2012 |
Branka Ramadanovic wrote:
The time you need to physically and mentally leave the job you are working on, to open up the new message and the new job and see what it is about, and also it may and often does have some special instructions to it, to save it on your computer, (DO IT - this is the only thing you get paid for), and then mail it back, invoice for it, track down whether the payment has been made and if it has not, send inquiry mails and all that sort of things - it really does not pay off to invest so much energy for such small amounts. And also, once I deduct the bank fees, it gets even much less than that. And it is not only that, one also gets physically and mentally exhausted and is then good for nothing. I was only wasting my time and energy.
Branka, you have expressed it much better than I could! The fact is, this contrasts so greatly with the lack of understanding from the client that it just leaves me impotent, since I cannot seem to make them understand that no, I am not available, even if "it will only take five minutes".
And it seems you gave up on trying to make them understand... No wonder, it is all to tiring! There comes a point when all you ever want is to recover the life that those clients took one hundred words at a time
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