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Finding a place where "working from home" is allowed - feedback needed
Thread poster: Faustine.Rou (X)
Faustine.Rou (X)
Faustine.Rou (X)
Local time: 15:49
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
... Dec 4, 2012

"These people are morons"... Exactly my thoughts after I talked (tried to talk) to them.

Well, I just wondered if I was doing something wrong or if all British translators had to rent an office space. Well, I got my answers and I feel better.

Thank you very much everyone!



[Modifié le 2012-12-04 18:37 GMT]


 
Sheila Wilson
Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:49
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Have you ever tried the same thing in France? Dec 4, 2012

I guarantee things are at least as difficult in France! Letting is a real nightmare. When our son was at college there, my husband's income was coming from abroad and in sterling; I was a French "micro-entreprise"; our savings were mostly in a Jersey bank. None of that sufficed, even though we had ample resources to pay the rent on his studio. In the end, a friend of his earning the SMIC (minimum wage!) acted as guarantor. Crazy s... See more
I guarantee things are at least as difficult in France! Letting is a real nightmare. When our son was at college there, my husband's income was coming from abroad and in sterling; I was a French "micro-entreprise"; our savings were mostly in a Jersey bank. None of that sufficed, even though we had ample resources to pay the rent on his studio. In the end, a friend of his earning the SMIC (minimum wage!) acted as guarantor. Crazy situation! Now, my son's a freelancer too, and his flat has to be in his girlfriend's name. Now that we've left France, we've let our house to a couple who think we're saints: no restrictions other than "leave it as you found it (or better)", and just a couple of signatures on the lease contract required.

I think it's the same the world over - nobody wants to take any risks nowadays, and nobody bothers to ask themselves why they're trying to enforce unreasonable rules and practices. But I'm sure you'll find someone in the small ads who will be reasonable. Believe me, many, many people are running our type of computer-based business from rented property in the U.K. The insurance angle doesn't involve us: they're talking of cover related to holding possibly dangerous stocks (i.e. added fire risk), harm to clients and their property (and by them) while on the premises, etc. None of it applies to us.
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Faustine.Rou (X)
Faustine.Rou (X)
Local time: 15:49
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
France... brrrr Dec 4, 2012

Sheila, just thinking about moving back to France gives me cold sweat and panic attacks...

 
XXXphxxx (X)
XXXphxxx (X)  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:49
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Ask why Dec 4, 2012

One of the most common reasons for not running a business from a rented home is insurance (which seems to govern most things in life these days). The landlord will have residential insurance on the property and it will be a blanket stipulation in his policy that commercial activities cannot be carried out there. Find out if that is the case and if you can obtain your own insurance to cover business activities at that address.

[Edited at 2012-12-04 20:18 GMT]


 
Adrian Grant
Adrian Grant  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:49
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Dodo Dec 4, 2012

I recently saw a similar kind of thing in my lease and raised the matter with my prospective landlord (via the property agents).

He replaced the standard text with words to the effect "the tenant regularly carries out administrative tasks on the premises".
Not entirely accurate, but it would seem to dodge the black/white mentality.

I imagine such rigid leases will go the way of Desmond Dodo once someone realises home-working is The Future.


 
Rosa Plana Castillón
Rosa Plana Castillón
Spain
Local time: 16:49
English to Spanish
+ ...
Same here Dec 4, 2012

Hi Faustine,

I live in a rented flat in the UK and have a similar clause in my contract. I asked the letting agents about it and they told me that there was absolutely no problem about me being a freelancer and working from home. Neil is right in his post: this clause is there to avoid the flat being converted into business premises with clients coming in and out of your door, which is not our case.

Good luck, and go for another letting agent!

Rosa


 
Kirsten Bodart
Kirsten Bodart  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:49
Dutch to English
+ ...
Ah, but isn't there a difference Dec 4, 2012

between a commercial activity and (what they call in the Germanic countries) a free profession, like lawyers, doctors and the like. In Germany, but I suspect in other countries too, they are classed as professions where the product 'sold' involves knowledge or mind-activity of the person involved. So also a freelance translator. A translator can outsource, but the point is that most of those translators sell only what they produce themselves. They cannot be replacd, not like a PM in an agency. L... See more
between a commercial activity and (what they call in the Germanic countries) a free profession, like lawyers, doctors and the like. In Germany, but I suspect in other countries too, they are classed as professions where the product 'sold' involves knowledge or mind-activity of the person involved. So also a freelance translator. A translator can outsource, but the point is that most of those translators sell only what they produce themselves. They cannot be replacd, not like a PM in an agency. Lawyers can have secretaries, but still the main thing is what they know. Their income in Belgium is also classed differently, maybe in other countries too, that I don't know. My point being that a freelancer does not equal a commercial activity per se.

If there is such a distinction in the UK (there must be, surely), the commercial clause does not apply to you. In Belgium, we always had such a clause too, although the agents are (or were maybe) slightly more honest about this.

Couldn't you adopt a commercial name and then say you work for them? Meaning yourself. You could even supply your own reference.
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veratek
veratek
Brazil
Local time: 12:49
French to English
+ ...
"disguise" your home work with a coworking space excuse Dec 4, 2012

How about if you say you do your work in one of these trendy "coworking" spaces?

If legally necessary, you could even take out a cheap monthly membership just to "prove" you have a place outside the home where you work - and work at home most of the time anyways.

Or if proof was not required, you can just say that's where you work - just make sure you know at least on coworking place to name if asked.


 
Faustine.Rou (X)
Faustine.Rou (X)
Local time: 15:49
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
thanks Dec 5, 2012

Thank you all for your suggestions and feedback.

Now, I can see that the agents were just, well... inflexible morons.

All your answers were very reassuring, so thanks again!


 
Louisa Berry
Louisa Berry
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:49
Member (2009)
German to English
Restricted covenant in title Dec 5, 2012

Not completely relevant to you as you are renting, but when we bought our house, there was a restricted covenant to the benefit of the council (as years ago it was a council house) saying no businesses to be carried on from the property.

I spoke to the council at the time and was told that although this technically meant I couldn't work as a freelancer from home, they would never enforce it as the sense it was originally intended was to stop people setting up a shop, etc. in their
... See more
Not completely relevant to you as you are renting, but when we bought our house, there was a restricted covenant to the benefit of the council (as years ago it was a council house) saying no businesses to be carried on from the property.

I spoke to the council at the time and was told that although this technically meant I couldn't work as a freelancer from home, they would never enforce it as the sense it was originally intended was to stop people setting up a shop, etc. in their house with customers coming and going.

It could be this sort of thing that stops landlords/letting agents from allowing ppl to work from home in their premises, but most of the time it seems to be them imposing a blanket ban as to be better safe than sorry, not understanding exactly what we do, or just being idiots!
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nordiste
nordiste  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 16:49
English to French
+ ...
Tell them you are a writer, or a consultant Dec 5, 2012

A writer is supposed to write alone in silence. NO chance there are clients coming in and out.
A consultant usually works at their client's premises, not from home.

Neither of these is completely irrelevant : as translators we write a lot, and we are also consultants in languages and multilingual services sometimes.


 
Neil Coffey
Neil Coffey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:49
French to English
+ ...
Coworking place Dec 6, 2012

veratek wrote:
How about if you say you do your work in one of these trendy "coworking" spaces?

If legally necessary, you could even take out a cheap monthly membership just to


If you really get stuck, this is not a bad option if they're cheap enough nowadays.

However, I do think it's just the agency staff being a bit over-jobsworth-y about their interpretation of the contract. Unfortunately, seems to be one of those cases where they're working to boilerplate contracts drawn up in the age when the Internet was all but a twinkle in Tim Berners Lee's eye.

Technically according to values and practices of 30 years ago you probably also need a work visa to check your e-mail on the beach. Who here applied for one last time they went on holiday? It really is one of those cases where a bit of common sense discretion is required, and hopefully if you find the right agency, they'll afford you such discretion.


 
Kate Tomkins
Kate Tomkins
Local time: 15:49
German to English
Any way you can avoid the agents? Dec 9, 2012

Sometimes a middleman is of benefit to everyone ... but when looking for a place to rent, you might want to try contact with landlords directly. There are means to do so on the internet!

I have always rented directly from landlords, and it is much more successful. Sit down with them and discuss the contract, establish an honest relationship with a clear contract, and (with sufficient respect from both parties) all will go smoothly!

And I agree that if possible, your exa
... See more
Sometimes a middleman is of benefit to everyone ... but when looking for a place to rent, you might want to try contact with landlords directly. There are means to do so on the internet!

I have always rented directly from landlords, and it is much more successful. Sit down with them and discuss the contract, establish an honest relationship with a clear contract, and (with sufficient respect from both parties) all will go smoothly!

And I agree that if possible, your exact professional circumstances should never be mentioned unless you are faced with some very specific questions. Keep things simple and these petty legal issues need never be a problem.
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Heike Behl, Ph.D.
Heike Behl, Ph.D.  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 15:49
Member (2003)
English to German
+ ...
Advertising Dec 10, 2012

In the condo complex where I live (USA), one of the things you are not allowed to do when working from home is to publicly advertise your services in combination with the address. The party in question was giving guitar lessons and drove around with a car advertising his services at his home address.

One other concern was the use of parking spaces taken up by customers.

These issues go more in the direction of property value and tenent convenience.

So two
... See more
In the condo complex where I live (USA), one of the things you are not allowed to do when working from home is to publicly advertise your services in combination with the address. The party in question was giving guitar lessons and drove around with a car advertising his services at his home address.

One other concern was the use of parking spaces taken up by customers.

These issues go more in the direction of property value and tenent convenience.

So two more issues where you could reassure the agents that they are not relevant for translators.
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