| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Telecommuter's visa? Thread poster: Patrick Yancey
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Marc P (X) 
Local time: 01:23
German to English
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| Telecommuter's visa? | Jul 7, 2006 |
quine wrote:
...the original topic of this post was about telecommuters (...), and why national goverments aren't courting them to immigrate
For two reasons. Firstly, the concept of telecommuting is still fairly new, and policymakers perhaps fail to appreciate what proportion of the economy is or could potentially be accounted for by this sector. Evidence of this is the fact that, as I mentioned in my previous post, governments (the German government, at any rate) make little effort to exploit the phenomenon even on the domestic market.
Secondly, special arrangements for the self-employed are open to abuse. A translator who has a flourishing business and offers to move to a new country, bringing that business with him or her and resulting in net inward investment, may, with sufficient lobbying, be able to persuade the powers that be of the merits of his or her case. But if it were granted, it would result in a flood individuals claiming to be established freelance translators in their existing countries and supporting this claim with documentation which the host country would find very difficult to verify. Amongst this flood would be many people without any means of supporting themselves who would be hoping to earn a living in the shadow economy, to live off welfare payments, or simply to find paid employment of some kind, after their arrival.
Marc
| | | | Patrick Yancey
Canada
Local time: 20:23
Member (2005)
Dutch to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Lack of standardization is a problem... | Jul 7, 2006 |
I agree with you Marc. I understand that the possibility of abuse greatly complicates the matter. But perhaps this is also only because it is so new... If there were, say, a respected international telecommuter's association, that extended membership on the basis of professionality, then perhaps they could serve to weed out the opportunists and provide a system of standardization for the documentation...
| | | | | Is it such an enormous problem? | Jul 7, 2006 |
I don't want to "preach" about global issues, poverty and such, but do you really think that - considering the lack of human rights in the world - the issue of telecommuters' visa is of such an importance that an association should take on the burden of lobbying governments to achieve the recognition you are talking about?
I'm sorry but I don't agree with you at all. Of course I would love to have the chance to live wherever I prefer for the time I want, but in my country, for examp... See more I don't want to "preach" about global issues, poverty and such, but do you really think that - considering the lack of human rights in the world - the issue of telecommuters' visa is of such an importance that an association should take on the burden of lobbying governments to achieve the recognition you are talking about?
I'm sorry but I don't agree with you at all. Of course I would love to have the chance to live wherever I prefer for the time I want, but in my country, for example, as Irene explained, it is very difficult to immigrate legally. Refugee status is hardly recognised at all.
To give you another example on an issue very dear to me: at the global level, refugee status to women who are marginalised, battered, killed, at risk of their lives in their countries is not granted anywhere in the world.
So why should the preference of a few priviledged freelancers around the world be more important than human rights?
There are associations and people around the world struggling and lobbying for a more flexible, open and just approach to immigration than the strictly economical one. So I, for one, would never waste my time to help telecommuters get a recognition that other people in great personal difficulty have been yearning for for years.
I apologise if this post sounds angry and blunt, but thankfully translators don't live on a desert island isolated from the rest of the world and their problems. So we cannot consider our likes, hopes and dreams setting aside everyone else. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Patrick Yancey
Canada
Local time: 20:23
Member (2005)
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | This is off the topic, but incidentally, human rights would benefit from a telecommuter's visa. | Jul 7, 2006 |
Francesca Pesce wrote:
why should the preference of a few priviledged freelancers around the world be more important than human rights?
I appreciate and share your concerns in that area Francesca, but please see the previous posts in this forum to get an idea of what we are discussing. As a proz.com member, you can open a new forum to discuss unrelated issues, such as immigration policies in an ideal world and global injustice.
The ONLY motivation/justification for a telecommuter's visa is economic. No one is suggesting telecommuter's be given visas that otherwise would have gone to people seeking asylum. I find that idea just as unjust and ludicrous as you do.
In fact, if there were such a thing as the telecommuter's visa, it would certaintly enable many people in nations with oppressive regimes or desperate economic conditions to move to another nation of their choice.
In addition to that, the increased tax revenue and economic benefits from migrated telecommuters could enable a country to accept more asylum seekers; or, if a developing country were to offer such a visa, it could work wonders toward harmonizing global economic disparities.
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| Are you sure? | Jul 7, 2006 |
quine wrote:
In addition to that, the increased tax revenue and economic benefits from migrated telecommuters could enable a country to accept more asylum seekers; or, if a developing country were to offer such a visa, it could work wonders toward harmonizing global economic disparities.
I still don't agree with you, but to be brief:
1) are you really so sure that in a developed country with a good welfare state your tax revenues are sufficent to cover completely pension benefits, public schooling, healthcare, etc... for you and your family, forever?
Are you so sure that your presence will enrich that country so much? And pay for someone else's presence as well?
2) Immigration policies are usually based on reciprocity: i.e. if Italy requires visa and restricts immigration from Bangladesh, Bangladesh usually applies the same restrictions to Italians. And this sounds reasonable. Why should they make an exception for you?
| | | | Patrick Yancey
Canada
Local time: 20:23
Member (2005)
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Francesca Pesce wrote:
are you really so sure that in a developed country with a good welfare state your tax revenues are sufficent to cover completely pension benefits, public schooling, healthcare, etc... for you and your family, forever?
I'm talking about full-time professional translators (well-established with steady work). This can be demonstrated in documentation. If you make several times the national average income of any developed nation, then yes, your presence really will necessarily be that beneficial. For opportunist, people who would call themselves professional translators (or other professional freelance telecommuters) but are something less than that and wish to take advantage of the country, this will be evident in the documentation (to a certain degree, standardization would improve this though, see previous post on this aspect)
Francesca Pesce wrote:
2) Immigration policies are usually based on reciprocity: Why should they make an exception for you?
They should not make an exception for anyone. They don't have to. It is in THEIR interest to offer this kind of visa.
(please read the previous posts in the thread)
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 01:23
German to English
+ ...
| Telecommuter's visa? | Jul 7, 2006 |
quine wrote:
For opportunist, people who would call themselves professional translators (or other professional freelance telecommuters) but are something less than that and wish to take advantage of the country, this will be evident in the documentation
That is precisely where I disagree, unfortunately. Just look around this site. Posts saying "Hey, I'm new, how do I get started?" appear with monotonous regularity. How often is it suggested that the poster first meet the linguistic/professional/commercial requirements needed to set up their translation businesses? No, the response is invariably a five-point bulleted list on how to become a translator and a warm welcome to the "community". If so many practising translators themselves are willing to apply such a low threshold to access to the business, how are national governments to assess their bona fide nature?
Not that I don't see your point, Quine. I just think it's unrealistic.
P.S.
I'm talking about full-time professional translators (well-established with steady work). This can be demonstrated in documentation.
Such documentation can be forged quite easily, particularly in certain countries, if the price is right. Don't underestimate the value of a visa!
Marc
[Edited at 2006-07-07 19:24]
| | | | Patrick Yancey
Canada
Local time: 20:23
Member (2005)
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I see what you're saying, but... | Jul 7, 2006 |
MarcPrior wrote:
Such documentation can be forged quite easily, particularly in certain countries, if the price is right. Don't underestimate the value of a visa!
Marc
[Edited at 2006-07-07 19:24]
You have a point, but it doesn't really apply here.
That objection can be made for any number of visas which already exist, such as: doctors, scientists, nurses, teachers, journalists, etc. Yet many countries offer special visas for such professions precisely because these are beneficial to their countries/economies. Just as with these visas, an effective system of verifying documentation would have to be implemented.
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Irene N
United States
Local time: 18:23
English to Russian
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quine wrote:
[ Just as with these visas, an effective system of verifying documentation would have to be implemented.
When added to all existing processing cost for the receiving country these expenses will eat up ~first 5 years of 1 person taxes:-). BTW, are they supposed to be single only or what would be your suggestion about families?
| | | | Fan Gao
Australia
Local time: 09:23
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Foreign Experts.... | Jul 8, 2006 |
Hi Quine,
In China they have something called the "Foreign Experts Certificate" and with this it makes it very easy for foreigners to receive a residents permit. Although not as good as citizenship it is the next best thing aside from marrying a local or buying a house here.
The English language is in such high demand here that just by being native English and having a teaching certificate or by having a trade that is in demand that this certificate can be obtained very... See more Hi Quine,
In China they have something called the "Foreign Experts Certificate" and with this it makes it very easy for foreigners to receive a residents permit. Although not as good as citizenship it is the next best thing aside from marrying a local or buying a house here.
The English language is in such high demand here that just by being native English and having a teaching certificate or by having a trade that is in demand that this certificate can be obtained very easily.
I don't think translation fits into the foreign expert categorisation yet but it's easy enough to get a TEFL certificate over the net these days.
Maybe other countries have a similar kind of "Foreign Experts Certificate" or will introduce something along the same lines in the future to make it easier for translators to get visa's and acquire residency in their countries.
Good luck,
Mark ▲ Collapse
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