| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Job posting: "Looking for honest translators..." Thread poster: Claudia Krysztofiak
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Dyran Altenburg (X) 
United States
Local time: 07:13
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Ad hominem, anyone? | Sep 14, 2006 |
Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
Unless you're an agency, a rate of USD0.07 (that's what 0.05 Euros is in American dollars, by the way) is a decent rate to get for translating, especially two languages that are so oversupplied anyway, like English and Spanish.
Not for me. I wouldn't get out of bed for that rate.
Granted, the EnEs pair is oversupplied at the lower end of the market, but up at the top (i.e. highly specialized texts for highly demanding clients), it's just the few and the proud, baby.
--
Dyran
| | | | | The difference between assumptions and making a point | Sep 14, 2006 |
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote: Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
Unless you're an agency, a rate of USD0.07 (that's what 0.05 Euros is in American dollars, by the way) is a decent rate to get for translating, especially two languages that are so oversupplied anyway, like English and Spanish.
You need to quit making assumptions without knowing the facts
May I suggest you go back to the ad and read it again? The woman clearly stated that she would pay .05 euros to European translators, and US translators would get .05 US dollars.
But the above is beyond the point we are trying to make.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 01:17] [/quote]
No. it's not beyond the point at all. Did you quote for the job? Did the job poster get back to you? Well, I did, and she did, and those aren't the terms the poster accepted when I wrote back verifying that the rate was the equivalent of Euros in US dollars. So, again, you need to quit making assumptions if you want to make a credible point, because, I repeat, points are only brought home based on facts, not assumptions.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 02:51]
| | | | Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Local time: 07:13
| From the "hand" of the outsourcer herself: | Sep 14, 2006 |
Volume and pricing:
0.055 EUR per word
Payment method: Online via Paypal
Payment 60 days after date of delivery.
Further payment details For American Translators, the rate is the same but in American Dollars.
Also:
MARIA GUSTAFSON wrote: No you are not inferior It's that clients in the US pay in American Dollars, while Europeans pay in Euros. That's it. Maria Gustafson Anna Strowe wrote:
I'm particularly fond of the stipulation that for American translators, the rate will be the same, but in USD. Um... Is it that my work is simply inferior to that of European translators? (Quantifiably inferior at that- and variable according to the current exchange rate.) What about American translators living abroad? Or non-American translators living in the US? What about dual citizenship?
That means that I'm worth (today) only 78% of my European colleagues. Maybe it's payback from pre-Euro days when I might have been worth 2000% of my Italian colleagues.
Anna
Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
Did you quote for the job? Did the job poster get back to you? Well, I did, and she did, and those aren't the terms the poster accepted when I wrote back verifying that the rate was the equivalent of Euros in US dollars. So, again, you need to quit making assumptions if you want to make a credible point, because, I repeat, points are only brought home based on facts, not assumptions.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 02:51]
Please read the whole thread before posting. And yes, I did quote, and yes, the outsourcer got back to me... with an apology...
This is not a war, or a ring, as Dimitri tried to imply. I believe that the only thing I (and others) are asking for is professionalism. You seem to be the one who does not stick to facts, and who started "qualifying" people and their comments. I do not consider this to be very professional behaviour either, and I will thus stop responding to your accussations.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 05:29]
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Susana Galilea
United States
Local time: 06:13
English to Spanish
+ ...
Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
And you may want to contact the administrators to notify them that you object to my uncivil, politically incorrect posts.
Bonita, I will appreciate if you don't put words in my mouth that were not there. There is no moderator assigned specifically to this forum, feel free to contact one if you have a complaint.
Susana
| | | | | Reading comprehension | Sep 14, 2006 |
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios wrote:
Volume and pricing:
0.055 EUR per word
Payment method: Online via Paypal
Payment 60 days after date of delivery.
Further payment details For American Translators, the rate is the same but in American Dollars.
Also: MARIA GUSTAFSON wrote: No you are not inferior It's that clients in the US pay in American Dollars, while Europeans pay in Euros. That's it. Maria Gustafson Anna Strowe wrote:
I'm particularly fond of the stipulation that for American translators, the rate will be the same, but in USD. Um... Is it that my work is simply inferior to that of European translators? (Quantifiably inferior at that- and variable according to the current exchange rate.) What about American translators living abroad? Or non-American translators living in the US? What about dual citizenship?
That means that I'm worth (today) only 78% of my European colleagues. Maybe it's payback from pre-Euro days when I might have been worth 2000% of my Italian colleagues.
Anna Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
Did you quote for the job? Did the job poster get back to you? Well, I did, and she did, and those aren't the terms the poster accepted when I wrote back verifying that the rate was the equivalent of Euros in US dollars. So, again, you need to quit making assumptions if you want to make a credible point, because, I repeat, points are only brought home based on facts, not assumptions.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 02:51] Please read the whole thread before posting. And yes, I did quote, and yes, the outsourcer got back to me... with an apology... This is not a war, or a ring, as Dimitri tried to imply. I believe that the only thing I (and others) are asking for is professionalism. You seem to be the one who does not stick to facts, and who started "qualifying" people and their comments. I do not consider this to be very professional behaviour either, and I will thus stop responding to your accussations. [Edited at 2006-09-14 05:29]
Well, that's two suggestions now that you should follow yourself. I did read the whole thread and I saw the job poster's apology, and even though you've quoted some of the comments the job poster has made on this thread to your convenience, that doesn't alter the fact that the apology she made was a general one. She didn't apologize for the statement "For American Translators, the rate is the same but in American Dollars" because there was no need to. The way I understood it when I read it was that the rate would be the equivalent in American dollars, that is, approx. USD0.07, and she confirmed this to me by responding to my email with the request to apply with her agency.
I've seen some horrible, very poorly worded Job Postings on ProZ, and the one in question in this thread doesn't even come close to being the worst. I understand that when people post jobs with deadlines to worry about they're going to type quickly and not take much time to carefully and meticulously word their posts, and that's why with a lot of them you have to read between the lines, and not be so ready to jump all over somebody due to a bad choice of words..
[
Oh, and accusations?! I wasn't aware that I was in a courtroom, nor did I realize that suggesting that someone make an argument based on facts instead of just their own intepretations was an accusation. In my view, attacking a colleague isn't very professional, and that's what this whole thread is really all about, isn't it? Attacking someone without even giving the person the benefit of the doubt? Hmmm, I wonder who lacks more in professionalism...
Anyways, enough said. I'm outta here! I've got better things to do... I'm sure this thread will manage to continue down it's path of idiocy without me.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 06:29]
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Marc P (X)
Local time: 13:13
German to English
+ ...
| What's all the fuss about? | Sep 14, 2006 |
0.055 EUR/word is peanuts. Double it and it's still on the low side in the developed economies. So what? No one is being forced to accept the job.
"For American Translators, the rate is the same but in American Dollars." To me, that means US$ 0.0697271/word. As I understand it, Maria wishes to pay American suppliers in dollars, that's all.
Maria is obviously not comfortable expressing herself in English (no offence to Maria, since it isn't her native language), and I as... See more 0.055 EUR/word is peanuts. Double it and it's still on the low side in the developed economies. So what? No one is being forced to accept the job.
"For American Translators, the rate is the same but in American Dollars." To me, that means US$ 0.0697271/word. As I understand it, Maria wishes to pay American suppliers in dollars, that's all.
Maria is obviously not comfortable expressing herself in English (no offence to Maria, since it isn't her native language), and I assumed she was probably thinking along the lines of "reputable" or "professional" when she wrote "honest". I can understand people being aggrieved at being asked personally whether they were honest (or reputable, or professional), but this is in a public job posting, so why take it personally?
Payment 60 days after date of delivery would be fine by me, provided it was agreed up front and payment was then actually made as promised. If you don't like the terms, don't accept them. Negotiate, or ignore the job.
Working at weekends? Without a surcharge even? Again, if you're not willing to do it, don't accept the job.
Sure, this is hardly a desirable opportunity and I won't be rushing to quote (or bid, or whatever), but the poster seems to be up-front about everything and I don't see any sign of wrongdoing. The way to get good terms from customers is to invest time in building your business and marketing yourself properly, not getting upset at the bottom-feeders.
Marc ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Please calm down | Sep 14, 2006 |
Bonita, it is by all means your right to answer to any job posted on Proz!
I think it very courageous to say that you did and that you were not disappointed of the contact so far. To me it is always nice to read some different opinion. It forces you to reconsider.
If you can afford to work for this rate just do it, and, even though I may make enemies here, if you are willing to work through weekends do so as well. Just make sure you can make a good living. This is all up to y... See more Bonita, it is by all means your right to answer to any job posted on Proz!
I think it very courageous to say that you did and that you were not disappointed of the contact so far. To me it is always nice to read some different opinion. It forces you to reconsider.
If you can afford to work for this rate just do it, and, even though I may make enemies here, if you are willing to work through weekends do so as well. Just make sure you can make a good living. This is all up to you. Please enjoy your work and have fun!
@Dyran and Susana: I did not like the choice of words, calling people who charge lower rates "bottom feeders". I think this is what made Bonita angry in the first place and I am really surprised that you could not see this. Is this not just as offensive as the call for "honest translators" that triggered this whole thread in the first place? I agree with Bonita that it at least sounds arrogant, without wishing to make any assumptions as to what Dyran's character is like. I would still have to met him to check out ....
So no name calling, whatever this means, intended here.
Please all come back down to good old earth, breath deep, relax and stop throwing each other's words at each other. Every time a thread starts getting filled with quotes and counter quotes it is getting out of hand.
By the way: The outsourcer did explicitly apologize in her job posting. I think this is great and I also am sure we do not have to start our own sort of religious war about this here and now. There is enough of that in the world already.
Let's get together in real life someday and be surprised what charming personalities are behind all these postings. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ruben Berrozpe (X)
English to Spanish
| Couldn't resist | Sep 14, 2006 |
Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
I'm sure this thread will manage to continue down it's path of idiocy without me.
[Edited at 2006-09-14 06:29]
Hum hum...
No, really, I'm gonna refrain myself from making the obvious joke.
Rb
| | | | | badly worded... | Sep 14, 2006 |
Mark Prior said:
Maria is obviously not comfortable expressing herself in English (no offence to Maria, since it isn't her native language), and I assumed she was probably thinking along the lines of "reputable" or "professional" when she wrote "honest".
yes, I believe Maria meant 'trustworthy'... all this fuss for nothing...
Giovanni
[Edited at 2006-09-14 10:46]
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Bill Greendyk
United States
Local time: 07:13
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Getting out of bed.... | Sep 14, 2006 |
Dyran Altenburg wrote: Bonita Mc Donald wrote:
Unless you're an agency, a rate of USD0.07 (that's what 0.05 Euros is in American dollars, by the way) is a decent rate to get for translating, especially two languages that are so oversupplied anyway, like English and Spanish. Not for me. I wouldn't get out of bed for that rate. Granted, the EnEs pair is oversupplied at the lower end of the market, but up at the top (i.e. highly specialized texts for highly demanding clients), it's just the few and the proud, baby. -- Dyran
I had to laugh when I read that one, Dyran While I guess I'd at least get out of bed, I agree in principle with what you post here. I too work in the very crowded ENG < > SPA pair, but our group works in one specialization for demanding, high-profile clients. As a consequence, I don't have a problem charging rates that I know are on the top end of the scale (and not just in the US!)
On the other hand, I recognize fully that I can only charge these rates BECAUSE of specializing in one, or at most two, fields. In the "general" category of translations in the ENG < > SPA pair, I have experienced myself, when starting out, that there is so much competition in the field that rates of USD 0.05-0.07 are far from uncommon even in the US, and in fact are often the norm. This is precisely why I decided to specialize, and I have been consequently able to double, triple, or even cuadruple the above-mentioned rates. Hence, my advice to those earning 5 cents and desiring to earn more -- specialize!
Saludos,
Bill
[Edited at 2006-09-14 11:03]
[Edited at 2006-09-15 12:19]
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 08:13
English to Spanish
+ ...
Maria Karra wrote: Dyran Altenburg wrote:
I, on the other hand, think that dragging the profession through the mud, taking advantage of inexperienced/desperate/clueless translators, and in general throwing business ethics out the window is a big no-no.
This is worth repeating.
Au
| | | | Aurora Humarán (X)
Argentina
Local time: 08:13
English to Spanish
+ ...
| I attest and information as a key KEY | Sep 14, 2006 |
Bill Greendyk wrote:
As a consequence, I don't have a problem charging rates that I know are on the top end of the scale (and not just in the US!)
Saludos,
Bill
I am not a member of Bill's team, but have worked for him a couple of times. I can attest that he does not care if the translator lives in Bath, in New York or in Buenos Aires: the rate is always the same, an excellent one. This is what the profession needs. This is what we all need.
Short-sight attitudes (XX: "this proposal works fine with me now as I live with my parents") is extremely dangerous for the community of translators in the middle and in the long run. Besides, some day in the future, XX will have accounting payables... but the market will be 'shaped' by today's attitudes by then. (This also applies to the 'weekend' thing: we should not see it according to our own situation: today this is a hobby because I have no children. The day you have children, you will find many clients assuming your weekend is ... theirs!).
I insist on the concept of 'shaping our own market'. No association can do more than we can as individual beings (word of mouth). This information we exchange here, in ProZ.com, is key for our future.
Au
[Edited at 2006-09-14 11:27]
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