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Kudoz - Had enough
Thread poster: Natalia Eklund
Kevin Fulton
Kevin Fulton  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:24
German to English
Occasionally embarrassed Jun 8, 2019

Gregory Lassale wrote:

I really wonder about a translator's level of expertise in a given when they struggle with so many technical terms. You have to wonder... for every question someone asks on here because google couldn't help, how many did they have that a google search did solve ?


Although I consider myself resourceful when tracking down terminology, there are times when I have to rely on posing a Kudoz question. A few times I have posted two queries for a single project and I've felt quite embarrassed. I'm astonished when I see multiple queries by a translator that appear to apply to the same project, especially since the relevant information is readily available online.

One time I posed a query because quite simply, I had run out of imagination, and rated my query as "non-pro" because it was so elementary (but not found in a dictionary). Several people remonstrated my self-rating because I was depriving people of points. Until then I was unaware that people placed a lot of value on acquiring Kudoz points.


Elizabeth Tamblin
IrinaN
 
Gregory Lassale
Gregory Lassale  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:24
English to French
Kevin Jun 21, 2019

Yep, it seems that some people are mainly interested in two things: Kudoz points and stroking their ego. Some of the juvenile exchanges some find themselves regularly involved in are beyond petty.

"Oh, you poo-poo'd my answer? Well, I'll poo-poo yours!"

Just deplorable.


Anthony OSullivan
P.L.F. Persio
 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
Preventing mutual curved poopoo Jun 22, 2019

While the user flagging feature doesn't seem to do much difference,
Would some kind of--at least optional--anonymity for askers/peers improve the situation?
On the other hand, I can't help wondering how so many established specialists and businessmen could be so quick'n'touchy, looking for possible offensive meanings while taking remarks and kicks too personally.


 
Richard Purdom
Richard Purdom  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 14:24
Dutch to English
+ ...
fake natives Jun 25, 2019

I think the solution is to limit everyone to ONE primary native language on Kudoz. There are way too many masquerading as natives because they have a degree in the subject, or an illusory view of their own capabilities.
A non-native could then answer Kudoz questions, but these could only be selected by a native (or vice versa). This would end the ridiculous situation of a non-native posing a question, and a non-native choosing it, and then even entering it in the glossary!

I
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I think the solution is to limit everyone to ONE primary native language on Kudoz. There are way too many masquerading as natives because they have a degree in the subject, or an illusory view of their own capabilities.
A non-native could then answer Kudoz questions, but these could only be selected by a native (or vice versa). This would end the ridiculous situation of a non-native posing a question, and a non-native choosing it, and then even entering it in the glossary!

It might affect the extremely low number of genuine bilinguals, but something has to be done.

[Edited at 2019-06-25 11:27 GMT]
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Jennifer Forbes
Anthony OSullivan
Yvonne Gallagher
Anne Maclennan
 
Paul Dixon
Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 11:24
Portuguese to English
+ ...
My pet peeve Jun 5, 2020

My pet peeve: there was a case where a KudoZ post got many replies, several (including mine) with one or more agrees. Then, instead of choosing one of the answers, the asker decides to cancel the question on grounds of 'closed without grading - answer found elsewhere'. Couldn't the asker be courteous enough to give points to one of the answers? Ideally either the first answer given with explanation, or the one with most 'agrees'.
I could understand this decision if nobody had answered the
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My pet peeve: there was a case where a KudoZ post got many replies, several (including mine) with one or more agrees. Then, instead of choosing one of the answers, the asker decides to cancel the question on grounds of 'closed without grading - answer found elsewhere'. Couldn't the asker be courteous enough to give points to one of the answers? Ideally either the first answer given with explanation, or the one with most 'agrees'.
I could understand this decision if nobody had answered the question, but as I see it this is a case of disrespect for people who often research into answers.
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Lancashireman
Anthony OSullivan
Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Christel Zipfel
Eric Azevedo
 
kd42
kd42
Estonia
Local time: 16:24
English to Russian
Kudoz system has a flaw Jun 10, 2020

This spirit of competition spoils everything, because some people (not only Kudoz hunters) are too serious about it.

In addition to this, the Kudoz mechanics is inconvenient. Today I discovered that when I post a comment to the answerer, Proz deletes all line breaks from the comment, so it becomes very hard to read.

Here -
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This spirit of competition spoils everything, because some people (not only Kudoz hunters) are too serious about it.

In addition to this, the Kudoz mechanics is inconvenient. Today I discovered that when I post a comment to the answerer, Proz deletes all line breaks from the comment, so it becomes very hard to read.

Here -- https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-russian/mechanics-mech-engineering/6829916-striker-kick-boring-feeds.html

I am a contributor of another online terminology system where numbers have almost no value, I added a few hundred terms, very good translations based on experience and research. Sometimes a user makes a remark, and I refine my entry, sometimes I google and find out that my own terms have become used and popular.

I would say that participation in Kudoz in its present state means to me that you either have too much free time at work or a psychological addiction to self-injury.
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writeaway
 
Claudio Porcellana (X)
Claudio Porcellana (X)  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 15:24
English to Italian
Kudoz - Had enough Jul 4, 2020

KSL Berlin wrote:
Yes, but sometimes I wonder if too much of a good thing might not have a toxic effect. I have enough points to end up on the first search results page for a few of the subjects I care most about (or I did last time I checked), but I'm not sure I would benefit from a higher score. If I came out on top of a search for a translator with experience in chemistry with something like 50,000 KudoZ points, one might legitimately ask when I find the time to do any translation.


it reminds me what an LP CEO (and a friend of mine) said to me eons ago about collaboration's offers received

if a translator has 1 zillion of kudozes = their CV will come in the garbage bin instantly (likely retired, working for fun, unable to do real jobs, possibly a cardsharper)
if a translator has a few kudozes = their CV will come in the garbage bin instantly (un-collaborative, selfish person, incompetent)
if a translator has an adequate number of kudozes (let's say a few hundreds) = I'll read & check their CV

that said, kudozes are not everything, and it's not entirely true that being the first in the list always pays
as in Web searches, the goal is to be in the first 2-3 pages max, but if your page, and titles, are enticing enough you can even beat 1st page competitors

on the other hand, I know a peer in the medical field that collected 1 zillion of kudozes... well not exactly 1 zillion but a huge number indeed
I've never understood how she was able to collect all them, but knowing her I am sure she is not a cardsharper
so the LP CEO (and a friend of mine) would have risked to miss a great translator/reviser in case she had sent her CV to him

my 2 cents


P.L.F. Persio
 
Claudio Porcellana (X)
Claudio Porcellana (X)  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 15:24
English to Italian
Kudoz - Had enough Jul 4, 2020

Robert Rietvelt wrote:
In some cases the client comes up with selfmade words (zero hits on Google). Technical German for example is notorious for it. Imaginary words, some as long as a whole sentence, and poor me struggling finding a way how to translate it to Dutch.
In those cases I can do with a little help of my (Kudoz)friends.


LOL, I just see me helping my wife fighting every day with those long-winded oddities, at the point I always ask myself if the German language has any rules or not


now, in the ideal world, a query to the PM, and possibly the PM questioning their customer works better because signed NDA often consider kudozes a breach of contract

but we all know the real world is very different


P.L.F. Persio
 
expressisverbis
expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 14:24
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Lately, I am having enough too... Sep 23, 2020

Is it just me? Am I the only one who is seeing this?
Since the beginning of the pandemic, I can see an increasing number of new members with empty profiles or with no relevant details included, shooting questions of basic level terms, questions of more terms than the ones permitted, inundating mailboxes with CVs, and some of those members can be extremely rude with other members.
Also, there is something serious going on: daily questions which are very technical (i.e. medical field)
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Is it just me? Am I the only one who is seeing this?
Since the beginning of the pandemic, I can see an increasing number of new members with empty profiles or with no relevant details included, shooting questions of basic level terms, questions of more terms than the ones permitted, inundating mailboxes with CVs, and some of those members can be extremely rude with other members.
Also, there is something serious going on: daily questions which are very technical (i.e. medical field) are being posted lately by someone who apparently does not have the appropriate skills and/or experience in this field.
Of course, to win the Kudoz’s race, everyone is answering to those questions without having in mind that this fellow may be doing something that can lead to serious outcomes.
How can we reach these members in a polite manner and tell them this is not right?
Where is the common sense, professionalism and honesty? I don’t accept translation jobs in nuclear energy, for instance, or in any other field where I don’t have any experience at all to allow me to provide a high-quality job.
Is this happening in the Portuguese Kudoz Help Network only, or do you see the same “trend” in other language forums?
I am sorry, I had to get this off my chest.
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Christopher Schröder
Marina Taffetani
Angie Garbarino
Dan Lucas
Yvonne Gallagher
P.L.F. Persio
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Perennial problem Sep 23, 2020

expressisverbis wrote:.
Is this happening in the Portuguese Kudoz Help Network only, or do you see the same “trend” in other language forums?
I am sorry, I had to get this off my chest.


Not a trend, but it happens occasionally in my languages. I take the view that however much help a really bad translator gets, they will still produce really bad translations, and it won’t be long before that catches up with them. Which is borne out by the real no-hopers disappearing as suddenly as they arrived.

That said, I like to get things off my chest too, and I have been warned and banned in the past for telling people they shouldn’t be doing the jobs they are doing. It seems that advice of that kind is against site rulez.


expressisverbis
Marina Taffetani
Dan Lucas
Rachel Fell
Yvonne Gallagher
P.L.F. Persio
 
expressisverbis
expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 14:24
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
I am glad to know I'm not the only one Sep 23, 2020

Chris S wrote:

Not a trend, but it happens occasionally in my languages. I take the view that however much help a really bad translator gets, they will still produce really bad translations, and it won’t be long before that catches up with them. Which is borne out by the real no-hopers disappearing as suddenly as they arrived.

That said, I like to get things off my chest too, and I have been warned and banned in the past for telling people they shouldn’t be doing the jobs they are doing. It seems that advice of that kind is against site rulez.


I would like to think that, they will vanish the same way they arrived, but I have my doubts.
I know exactly the feeling! If I say something about this in discussion entries or in Portuguese forum, I will be "hanged" by the PT community.
These people are compromising other people's lives with bad translations and giving a bad reputation to professional translators, and expressing our views or giving any advice to them is against the rules?


P.L.F. Persio
 
Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:24
Spanish to English
+ ...
I wouldn't know ... Sep 23, 2020

... because I'm too scared to climb into the ring with the KudoZ heavyweights. Funnily enough, though, from what I've seen I'm more scared of the people who know bog all, because those bozos either wear the opponent down for the points or they go for a knockout in round eight.

expressisverbis
P.L.F. Persio
 
Anne Maclennan
Anne Maclennan  Identity Verified
Local time: 15:24
Member (2010)
German to English
+ ...
Check the number of questions posed Sep 24, 2020

If and when – and it is not often- I reply to an asker, I always check their total number of questions first. If the total is a ridiculous 1,000+, or sometimes up to 3,000 or more, I do not bother to suggest a translation.

I agree whole-heartedly with all the comments ref the high number of questions posed by some askers. My question to ProZ.com is:

Why are “translators” who need to ask for the simplest vocabulary in topics where it seems from the content and qua
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If and when – and it is not often- I reply to an asker, I always check their total number of questions first. If the total is a ridiculous 1,000+, or sometimes up to 3,000 or more, I do not bother to suggest a translation.

I agree whole-heartedly with all the comments ref the high number of questions posed by some askers. My question to ProZ.com is:

Why are “translators” who need to ask for the simplest vocabulary in topics where it seems from the content and quantity of their questions they are NOT expert, allowed space on the site to advertise their wares?

This cannot be good for the status of translation as profession and makes it harder for true professional translators to make a living.

My question extends also to those who advertise themselves on their profile as translators from X language to Y language, but who accept translations from Y language to X language. When I trained I was taught that this is unethical, but that was then and this is now…
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expressisverbis
P.L.F. Persio
 
expressisverbis
expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 14:24
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Anne, I fully agree with you, Sep 24, 2020

that this problem makes it harder for true professional translators to make a living.
But I just need to think these fake translators won’t get very far, unless translation agencies with very low rates accept them.
This can be catastrophic for professional translators, for those clients who accept their work (even if they don't care about quality at all), and for lives.
I am sure everyone here has already heard or read stories about serious translations mistakes that caused
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that this problem makes it harder for true professional translators to make a living.
But I just need to think these fake translators won’t get very far, unless translation agencies with very low rates accept them.
This can be catastrophic for professional translators, for those clients who accept their work (even if they don't care about quality at all), and for lives.
I am sure everyone here has already heard or read stories about serious translations mistakes that caused big problems, including personal damages and even death.
This worries me.
On the other hand, when answering to professional translators’ fellows there's something that always surprised me until now: some members don’t give a damn about the poster or the context.
Anything goes! And every man for himself!

(As far as I know, the maximum number of questions allowed to a non-member is 5, per day.)
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Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:24
Member (2008)
Italian to English
In Italian too Sep 24, 2020

There is discussion about this in the Italian-language forums too. https://www.proz.com/forum/italian/346645-sono_ancora_utili_i_kudoz.html

One interesting suggestion made there: points should not be awarded.

However that suggestion was rejected because it would then become impossible to rank individual translators.

An altern
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There is discussion about this in the Italian-language forums too. https://www.proz.com/forum/italian/346645-sono_ancora_utili_i_kudoz.html

One interesting suggestion made there: points should not be awarded.

However that suggestion was rejected because it would then become impossible to rank individual translators.

An alternative suggestion (to rank translators based on their WWA) was rejected because not all clients are happy to provide WWAs, and not all translators are happy to ask for a WWA.

One thing's for sure: Kudoz is corrupt because it incentivises unscrupulous people to go chasing after points. Somehow we need to prevent this. I'm sure there's a way. If only I could think of it....



[Edited at 2020-09-24 16:09 GMT]
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P.L.F. Persio
expressisverbis
Eric Azevedo
 
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Kudoz - Had enough






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