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Abusive exchange with a translation company
Thread poster: Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:41
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
no help from email provider Feb 22, 2018

They answered yesterday and clearly they hadn't even read what I wrote them. Something like "yes, we know, it is really annoying when emails are deleted incidentally". Seems I'm dealing only with idiots right now. Anyway, after again explaining what the problem was, they told me they don't have any logs where access to my account are stored, due to privacy reasons. So they are protecting the privacy of somebody who might have hacked my account, whoever that is. By the way, it always takes ages u... See more
They answered yesterday and clearly they hadn't even read what I wrote them. Something like "yes, we know, it is really annoying when emails are deleted incidentally". Seems I'm dealing only with idiots right now. Anyway, after again explaining what the problem was, they told me they don't have any logs where access to my account are stored, due to privacy reasons. So they are protecting the privacy of somebody who might have hacked my account, whoever that is. By the way, it always takes ages until they answer questions, and their server seems to be amongst the slowest on earth, so I will change my provder anyway.

I guess I have to look for someone else to check this issue. Meanwhile I'm getting advice from my lawyer how exactly to proceed with the charges and what to include (this racist thing, the insults etc.). This goes independently from the judicial order for payment.
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Mervyn Henderson (X)
Mervyn Henderson (X)  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 15:41
Spanish to English
+ ...
Can I ask ... Feb 22, 2018

... where your BB entry is (as an alternative to naming names)? I'd seriously like to avoid working for this man at some point (or maybe I already am, horrors, though I doubt it).

 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:41
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
The laws. Feb 22, 2018

Inez Ulrich wrote:

They answered yesterday and clearly they hadn't even read what I wrote them. Something like "yes, we know, it is really annoying when emails are deleted incidentally". Seems I'm dealing only with idiots right now. Anyway, after again explaining what the problem was, they told me they don't have any logs where access to my account are stored, due to privacy reasons. So they are protecting the privacy of somebody who might have hacked my account, whoever that is. By the way, it always takes ages until they answer questions, and their server seems to be amongst the slowest on earth, so I will change my provder anyway.

I guess I have to look for someone else to check this issue. Meanwhile I'm getting advice from my lawyer how exactly to proceed with the charges and what to include (this racist thing, the insults etc.). This goes independently from the judicial order for payment.


Re. hosted email providers, I experienced similar things, but never with gmail. That's why I'm sticking with my gmail now.

Not sure about laws in individual countries, but it seems that insults should be systematic, long-lasting and causing a significant emotional distress for the legal action to be taken. You may check this for some reference:


Jennifer Ellis, I'm a lawyer in PA, USA. Nothing I write is legal advice.
Updated Feb 12 · Author has 12.8k answers and 41.2m answer views
Generally speaking, an insult would not be enough to sue over. With few exceptions, lawsuits require damages of some kind. There can be claims for intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress, but in many states, those claims require physical damage as well, and if not, the emotional harm must be severe. For example, one kind of potential claim for negligent infliction of emotional distress is if one spouse sees another spouse killed right in front of him in a car accident (when not in the car.) Despite not suffering a physical injury, in some jurisdictions, this might be enough to give rise to a cognizable claim.

This is for the US.


Source: https://www.quora.com/If-somebody-insults-you-can-you-sue-them-against-any-charges-in-the-court-of-law


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:41
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I'm not sure, if... Feb 22, 2018

Mervyn Henderson wrote:

... where your BB entry is (as an alternative to naming names)? I'd seriously like to avoid working for this man at some point (or maybe I already am, horrors, though I doubt it).


I'm allowed to put the link in here?


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:41
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks Feb 22, 2018

I'm going to sue him for deception and fraud primarily. The insults are only additional ppints to be considered. I need to kow if there was some hacking done to my account and if it turns out there has been hacking, this in itself is a case for justice.

Lingua 5B wrote:

Inez Ulrich wrote:

They answered yesterday and clearly they hadn't even read what I wrote them. Something like "yes, we know, it is really annoying when emails are deleted incidentally". Seems I'm dealing only with idiots right now. Anyway, after again explaining what the problem was, they told me they don't have any logs where access to my account are stored, due to privacy reasons. So they are protecting the privacy of somebody who might have hacked my account, whoever that is. By the way, it always takes ages until they answer questions, and their server seems to be amongst the slowest on earth, so I will change my provder anyway.

I guess I have to look for someone else to check this issue. Meanwhile I'm getting advice from my lawyer how exactly to proceed with the charges and what to include (this racist thing, the insults etc.). This goes independently from the judicial order for payment.


Re. hosted email providers, I experienced similar things, but never with gmail. That's why I'm sticking with my gmail now.

Not sure about laws in individual countries, but it seems that insults should be systematic, long-lasting and causing a significant emotional distress for the legal action to be taken. You may check this for some reference:


Jennifer Ellis, I'm a lawyer in PA, USA. Nothing I write is legal advice.
Updated Feb 12 · Author has 12.8k answers and 41.2m answer views
Generally speaking, an insult would not be enough to sue over. With few exceptions, lawsuits require damages of some kind. There can be claims for intentional or negligent infliction of emotional distress, but in many states, those claims require physical damage as well, and if not, the emotional harm must be severe. For example, one kind of potential claim for negligent infliction of emotional distress is if one spouse sees another spouse killed right in front of him in a car accident (when not in the car.) Despite not suffering a physical injury, in some jurisdictions, this might be enough to give rise to a cognizable claim.

This is for the US.


Source: https://www.quora.com/If-somebody-insults-you-can-you-sue-them-against-any-charges-in-the-court-of-law



 
Lingua 5B
Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 15:41
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Re. hacking etc. - my experience Feb 22, 2018

When I used hosted email provider that came along with my hosted website, I experienced similar things (lost emails, non-retrievable, etc.), and this email hosting was quite costly. It had nothing to do with any hacking, just poor customer service, glitches, bugs in system etc. My impression was that it was outsourced to India or some other country, and operated from there in a very disorganized manner. The provider was GoDaddy. They charged me a high price, and provided a low quality service. T... See more
When I used hosted email provider that came along with my hosted website, I experienced similar things (lost emails, non-retrievable, etc.), and this email hosting was quite costly. It had nothing to do with any hacking, just poor customer service, glitches, bugs in system etc. My impression was that it was outsourced to India or some other country, and operated from there in a very disorganized manner. The provider was GoDaddy. They charged me a high price, and provided a low quality service. That's what outsourcing is for, right?

In 10+ years of using gmail I never experienced anything similar. And it's free of charge, go figure.
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Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
FWIW Feb 22, 2018

Although I know that I'd react similarly to you in this position, Inez, from a distance it strikes me that you'd be far better just putting this sorry episode behind you.

The time, money and energy needed for debt recovery or legal action will dwarf your loss to date. In my experience, going on a crusade might make you feel better for a bit but is unlikely to be worth it in the end.


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:41
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I hear you Feb 22, 2018

Chris S wrote:

Although I know that I'd react similarly to you in this position, Inez, from a distance it strikes me that you'd be far better just putting this sorry episode behind you.

The time, money and energy needed for debt recovery or legal action will dwarf your loss to date. In my experience, going on a crusade might make you feel better for a bit but is unlikely to be worth it in the end.


but this has nothing to do with a crusade. 10 years ago I would have spit nails for days, but I have changed a lot since then. Of course, I was really angry, but I'm completely calm now. I won't let him get away with this, though. As I told a colleague a few minutes ago, I don't have time right now to proceed with that legal stuff, but this is probably a good thing, so things can be sorted out and I can find out with my lawyer, which actions make sense and which don't. At least I will bother him a bit, that's for sure.


 
Daniel Frisano
Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 15:41
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Must have been a big surprise Feb 23, 2018

Inez Ulrich wrote:

He said he always pays his translators (well, the blue board tells a different story), so I trusted him.


You trusted someone who obviously couldn't be trusted. Shame on... them?


 
Liviu-Lee Roth
Liviu-Lee Roth
United States
Local time: 10:41
Romanian to English
+ ...
in this situation, Feb 23, 2018

I would take a medium to large project from them, stretch it to the deadline and provide them ...nothing!

They can find somebody else, but at least, you harassed them!

If he is a jerk, return the favor!

This is what I do to all the (Indian, Pakistani) callers who tell me that my computer has a problem. If I get the time, I keep them busy for at least 15-20 minutes and have fun.


 
Inez Ulrich
Inez Ulrich  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:41
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
for the fourth or fifth time... Feb 23, 2018

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Inez Ulrich wrote:

He said he always pays his translators (well, the blue board tells a different story), so I trusted him.


You trusted someone who obviously couldn't be trusted. Shame on... them?


I didn't check the BB, for whatever reason. All this is my fault. I deserve to be treated that way. He was absolutely right to scam me, after all, I haven't read his BB record.


 
mariealpilles
mariealpilles  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:41
Member (2014)
English to French
+ ...
abuse from an agency Feb 23, 2018

I am sorry to read such vulgarity from a fellow country man. Do note that now you can turn to a debt collector in France and it will cost you nothing. The law was changed precisely so that small businesses can get their money without having to fork out a big sum first. Check on the website of any debt collector preferably in the area that man lives or works - he may be known. You can also directly write to the Procureur de la République with your complaint. Those are the first steps you can tak... See more
I am sorry to read such vulgarity from a fellow country man. Do note that now you can turn to a debt collector in France and it will cost you nothing. The law was changed precisely so that small businesses can get their money without having to fork out a big sum first. Check on the website of any debt collector preferably in the area that man lives or works - he may be known. You can also directly write to the Procureur de la République with your complaint. Those are the first steps you can take and they are free and then see how things develop from there. However, as regards his insults against you because you are German you should try and file a report with the police in France because they are taken very seriously. If you need any help, do not hesitate to contact me on my private email.Collapse


 
gayd (X)
gayd (X)
@mariealpilles Feb 23, 2018

mariealpilles wrote:

I am sorry to read such vulgarity from a fellow country man. he may be known. You can also directly write to the Procureur de la République with your complaint. Those are the first steps you can take and they are free and then see how things develop from there. However, as regards his insults against you because you are German you should try and file a report with the police in France because they are taken very seriously.

Don't carry the world's sins upon your shoulders.
As far as the French police is concerned, I think they have something else to do. France has to hire policemen just to
protect its own police! A few months ago, a person responsible for the security in a suburb of Paris has been badly beaten.
It's almost funny.

[Modifié le 2018-02-23 11:39 GMT]


 
Nikolaki
Nikolaki  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 15:41
French to English
Please do not feed the lawyers Feb 23, 2018

Hi Inez. Before you go enriching a lawyer, you'd do well to take up Mareialpilles' kind offer of advice. You used to be able to make private claims for damages of up to €1500 in the courts here in France, for no fee, I think it may be even easier now. The only teensy-weensy drawback is that the law is too busy to actually enforce those decisions – as David implies - and N.Z. (a quick look at the CCSConsult website clearly suggests this is a one-man show run by the said N.Z.) is conveniently ... See more
Hi Inez. Before you go enriching a lawyer, you'd do well to take up Mareialpilles' kind offer of advice. You used to be able to make private claims for damages of up to €1500 in the courts here in France, for no fee, I think it may be even easier now. The only teensy-weensy drawback is that the law is too busy to actually enforce those decisions – as David implies - and N.Z. (a quick look at the CCSConsult website clearly suggests this is a one-man show run by the said N.Z.) is conveniently located in a suburb of Paris that has some, erm, "sensitive" zones. But at least the decision would stand on record for a while.

Seems to me the most unusual and perhaps even most serious aspect is the way he seems to have made his insulting emails to you disappear. I didn't realise that was even possible unless he could control your entire system (but then I have a Mac). It sounds to me like that might be, or at least ought to be, the offence you could nail him for. The failure of your ISP to cooperate more fully could even suggest that they know full well that a criminal offense has taken place here - and maybe N.Z. even has a cross-border friend-of-a-friend network that includes IT workers at your ISP, with access to the mail servers.

Good luck, and do keep us posted.


[Edited at 2018-02-23 13:33 GMT]
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Natasha Ziada (X)
Natasha Ziada (X)  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 00:41
English to Dutch
+ ...
Blame where blame's due Feb 23, 2018

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Inez Ulrich wrote:

He said he always pays his translators (well, the blue board tells a different story), so I trusted him.


You trusted someone who obviously couldn't be trusted. Shame on... them?


Yes, shame on them. To be clear: no-one deserves to be 1) cheated out of payment and 2) treated so abominably for mistakenly trusting someone. Yes, OP should have done her due diligence, but we've all done or neglected things that, in hindsight, we should have done differently. The only one to blame here for their outrageous behaviour, however, is the agency.

Inez, please report the agency to the Naming and Shaming group on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/3415770


Grace Anderson
 
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