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Do I have to pay to quote on a ProZ.com job?
Autor wątku: FaisalKhan2121

Serena Basili  Identity Verified
Belgia
Local time: 05:34
angielski > włoski
+ ...
Just consider this fact May 20, 2015

Stanislaw Czech, MCIL wrote:

Serena Basili wrote:

But if they can afford to pay the full membership it means they have a stable income and are working, right?


Translation is a business like any other, to reap benefits one must invest. Just like it is necessary to have appropriate hardware and software it is also necessary to spend time and money on promotion and networking.

The fact that someone makes such investments says nothing about income, and even less about income from translation.

Stanislaw


Sorry, but I can't imagine someone willing to start this career and with no money spending e.g. 700 euros or more for CAT tools, unless he/she can rely on someone else's money / help.


Alejandro Sanabria
Gulnara Wong
 

Stanislaw Czech, MCIL  Identity Verified
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 04:34
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006

angielski > polski
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Taxi driver May 20, 2015

I thought that we were discussing investment in ProZ membership which starts at $77 - far cry from $700.

However if someone is serious about a new career, investment is a must. $700 represents less than a week of translator's work, if you think that's a lot, think about someone who wants to become a taxi driver. Saying I will not buy a car before I make good money as a taxi driver is not really an option.

Best Regards
Stanislaw


 

Serena Basili  Identity Verified
Belgia
Local time: 05:34
angielski > włoski
+ ...
700 euros was an example May 20, 2015

Ok, your point of view it's fine, but the point is that no one can invest money that doesn't have, not even the wannabe taxi driver, who will be forced to give up. I would love to invest money on my freelance career, but I can't, and the proz membership is just the first step...I see that 90% of job offers requires CAT tools (mostly Trados) and even with the free trial version it is impossible, I can't get a free version for every job I submit a quote!

[Edited at 2015-05-20 13:26 GMT]


Alejandro Sanabria
 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Niemcy
Local time: 05:34
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006

niderlandzki > niemiecki
+ ...
The usual way... May 20, 2015

Serena Basili wrote:

Ok, your point of view it's fine, but the point is that no one can invest money that doesn't have, not even the wannabe taxi driver, who will be forced to give up. I would love to invest money on my freelance career, but I can't, and the proz membership is just the first step...I see that 90% of job offers requires CAT tools (mostly Trados) and even with the free trial version it is impossible, I can't get a free version for every job I submit a quote!

[Edited at 2015-05-20 13:26 GMT]


Well, the usual way people handle this is to go to a bank. Prepare a good and plausible business plan. If you can't find a bank willing to lend you the money equivalent of one or two day's work after having seen the best and most plausible business plan you've managed to come up with, chances are that freelance translating isn't for you. Just like the taxi driver, you give up.

An alternative way to cope with this may be flipping burgers for some time and save money you can invest in your business as a translator.

That said, there are of course quite some cheaper CAT tools you could use, and even some free ones. At some time however, you need to be prepared to invest in your business: software, hardware, utilities, tax accountant, specialist literature, membership fees, CPD, you name it.



[Bearbeitet am 2015-05-20 13:52 GMT]


 

Serena Basili  Identity Verified
Belgia
Local time: 05:34
angielski > włoski
+ ...
For Erik (a bit off topic) May 20, 2015

So you are saying that unless I am an expert in economics and already wealthy I have to give up my dream job? I don't know if it is different where you live in, but in Italy the chances for a bank to lend you ANY SUM are pretty much the same as to find a non-corrupted politician (=no way), as well as finding a job that lets you survive AND put money aside AT THE SAME TIME.

Have you ever found job only providing to agencies free or cheap CAT tools (and having less than 5 years of exp
... See more
So you are saying that unless I am an expert in economics and already wealthy I have to give up my dream job? I don't know if it is different where you live in, but in Italy the chances for a bank to lend you ANY SUM are pretty much the same as to find a non-corrupted politician (=no way), as well as finding a job that lets you survive AND put money aside AT THE SAME TIME.

Have you ever found job only providing to agencies free or cheap CAT tools (and having less than 5 years of experience, which seems to be an insurmountable barrier, as you can't get experience when no one gives you a chance)? I don't think this is possible, they wouldn't consider those "professional".

[Edited at 2015-05-20 15:21 GMT]
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Alejandro Sanabria
 

DZiW (X)
Ukraina
angielski > rosyjski
+ ...
Nothing personal, biz only May 20, 2015

I don't see a problem or a discrimination here: one is free to choose what he likes if it's legal and he can afford it, and if he doesn't like something, then he can choose something else or go somewhere else. Free marketing!

If one really want to get a commercial (here*) option for free, then he is not apt to...
Frankly, I cannot even imagine anyone who is not able to afford a single FRS "American" dollar.
So either assess the biz risks at retail or consider wholesale d
... See more
I don't see a problem or a discrimination here: one is free to choose what he likes if it's legal and he can afford it, and if he doesn't like something, then he can choose something else or go somewhere else. Free marketing!

If one really want to get a commercial (here*) option for free, then he is not apt to...
Frankly, I cannot even imagine anyone who is not able to afford a single FRS "American" dollar.
So either assess the biz risks at retail or consider wholesale discounts as a ProZ membership investment. No guarantees either.

Shortly, ProZ members do also pay for bidding, but their quotes are just prepaid)

Take care.
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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Niemcy
Local time: 05:34
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006

niderlandzki > niemiecki
+ ...
Well ... May 20, 2015

Serena Basili wrote:

So you are saying that unless I am an expert in economics and already wealthy I have to give up my dream job?


No, not at all. But it's not that you're entitled to anything. You're just in the same position that most freelancers find themselves in when they start out.

Serena Basili wrote:
I don't know if it is different where you live in, but in Italy the chances for a bank to lend you ANY SUM are pretty much the same as to find a non-corrupted politician (=no way), as well as finding a job that lets you survive AND put money aside AT THE SAME TIME.


Well, if you absolutely can't hink of any way to save a couple of hundred dollars in the run of a few months, you should be concentrating on jobs that don't require a CAT tool (of which there surely are quite a lot). Proz is only a small part of the translation market, but even here, there are jobs that don't require a CAT tool, or a translator with a lot of experience ...

Anyway, having a CAT tool will not guarantee you access to jobs. Not at all. It's just one prerequisite for some jobs.

Now, what would the taxi driver from your example do? He'd probably try to get hired as a driver somewhere. That way, he can gain experience and save some money to buy his own taxi one day.

You can't expect a steady income in your first days as a freelance translator. That's just unrealistic.

Again, I'm under the impression that you think you're entitled to jobs. You aren't. You're competing against lots and lots of other translators, most of which were in the same position at some point in time as you are today.

HTH,
Erik



[Bearbeitet am 2015-05-20 17:25 GMT]


 

Serena Basili  Identity Verified
Belgia
Local time: 05:34
angielski > włoski
+ ...
I don't think I'm entitled to jobs, May 20, 2015

I just can't get away that easily with the fact that some people who just started as me already have a steady income and are happy while I'm drowning more and more in the field of invisible translators who will never see their dreams come true...I've spent my whole life dreaming of this job and now I see that only rich people can do it and succeed

Alejandro Sanabria
 

Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Niemcy
Local time: 05:34
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006

niderlandzki > niemiecki
+ ...
Rich? May 20, 2015

Serena Basili wrote:
I've spent my whole life dreaming of this job and now I see that only rich people can do it and succeed


Well, if you can't be convinced that this is far from true, you may indeed have to say goodbye to your dream...

I'd say: stop dreaming. Start acting instead.

[Bearbeitet am 2015-05-20 17:09 GMT]


 

DZiW (X)
Ukraina
angielski > rosyjski
+ ...
@Serena May 20, 2015

In general, you are right: only those who dare, who care and allocate skills, abilities and resources can reach some level of success.

On the other hand, is it FAIR we are getting older every millisecond while our metabolism slows down? Namely, we are slowly dying right from the birth! Is it fair people have to pay for everything? Is it fair a birth requires so much and rather painful for women only, let alone a newborn is so demanding and costy? Is it fair when the prices go high,
... See more
In general, you are right: only those who dare, who care and allocate skills, abilities and resources can reach some level of success.

On the other hand, is it FAIR we are getting older every millisecond while our metabolism slows down? Namely, we are slowly dying right from the birth! Is it fair people have to pay for everything? Is it fair a birth requires so much and rather painful for women only, let alone a newborn is so demanding and costy? Is it fair when the prices go high, only the life becomes cheap? Is it fair that learning almost anything useful requires so much fuss, time, and efforts? Is it?

The question: Is it, what you are rich in, enough to get what you really want or you need to pay or sweat?
You decide, but even if you are doing nothing it still has its price)

And if your very 'rich' problem for now is $1 bid at ProZ, then just check other options and other places. Even better, if you pay (oops!) attention to the local market and find direct clients or even open your own biz, say, agency. Why not?

Cheers.

[Edited at 2015-05-20 17:14 GMT]
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Stanislaw Czech, MCIL  Identity Verified
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 04:34
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006

angielski > polski
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Two mice in a bucket of cream May 20, 2015

There is a tale of two mice who fell into a bucket of cream. If you want to be a freelancer you need to be like the one who did not gave up.

Translation is not a preserve of rich people. I know of a translator who begun freelancing living with his wife to be in a miniature bedsit, he worked as a projectionist in a cinema, did odd jobs for catering agencies and translated whenever he could (more often then not in the night). With increase in jobs he slowly withdrawn from other work a
... See more
There is a tale of two mice who fell into a bucket of cream. If you want to be a freelancer you need to be like the one who did not gave up.

Translation is not a preserve of rich people. I know of a translator who begun freelancing living with his wife to be in a miniature bedsit, he worked as a projectionist in a cinema, did odd jobs for catering agencies and translated whenever he could (more often then not in the night). With increase in jobs he slowly withdrawn from other work and in a year or so begun to work fulltime.

It is doable, just the less money you have, the more tenacity you need.

Good luck!

[Edited at 2015-05-20 17:13 GMT]
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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 00:34
Członek ProZ.com
od 2006

angielski > niemiecki
+ ...
A few ideas May 20, 2015

Serena Basili wrote:

I just can't get away that easily with the fact that some people who just started as me already have a steady income and are happy while I'm drowning more and more in the field of invisible translators who will never see their dreams come true...I've spent my whole life dreaming of this job and now I see that only rich people can do it and succeed



Hi Serena.

I wouldn't put too much trust in stories of people who say they just started, have a steady income and are happy. That doesn't sound like anything a newcomer usually experiences. And accepting rock bottom jobs will not make you happy in the long run.


Here's a link to another thread that addresses what you can do without a paid membership.
But as you will see, many will recommend the membership, especially when you're starting out. It makes it so much easier to be found in the translator directory, meaning by individual clients and agencies that are looking for translators. And as a newcomer, you will depend on that more than established colleagues. Maybe you can get the money somehow.

You don't need a CAT tool right away I would argue. Especially not for jobs that ask you to discount your services because of the fuzzy matches scheme. And as some colleagues mentioned, there are a few free CAT tools available. But focus on quality for now instead of CAT tools.

http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_translator_coop/285808-how_likely_is_it_to_get_work_with_a_free_account.html#2428669


In addition, you can work on your profile page and expand it considerably. You can try to approach clients (website owners) directly and offer your services. I would get an additional website to which you can direct your prospective clients.

And yes, to be a successful translator today requires a lot of tenacity, sincerity, language skills, business sense and professional demeanor and appearance (websites!), common sense, and, I believe, trust in some of what many colleagues have written here. If you really want to be a successful translator, there's a good chance you can become one.

Here's another link on how to establish yourself as a translator:
http://wiki.proz.com/wiki/index.php/Establishing_yourself_as_a_freelance_translator

Good luck!
Bernhard


 

Berlin_123
Niemcy
To Serena May 20, 2015

Hi Serena,

Another idea as to how you could perhaps get at least a few jobs without investing in a CAT tool right away: In my experience, quite a few agencies that primarily use memoQ as a CAT tool will provide their translators with free licenses for the duration of a project.

You could start by taking a look at the translation companies/agencies that are part of Kilgray's Growing Together Program (listed on the Kilgray website - Kilgray is the company that develops/se
... See more
Hi Serena,

Another idea as to how you could perhaps get at least a few jobs without investing in a CAT tool right away: In my experience, quite a few agencies that primarily use memoQ as a CAT tool will provide their translators with free licenses for the duration of a project.

You could start by taking a look at the translation companies/agencies that are part of Kilgray's Growing Together Program (listed on the Kilgray website - Kilgray is the company that develops/sells memoQ) and offer your services to those that work in your language pairs/areas of specialisation and have a good Blue Board record. (The latter should definitely not be neglected, as there are unfortunately several agencies among those listed that have quite a bad reputation with freelancers regarding payment.) Some of these agencies may ask you to do a free translation test, and if they are happy with the result, there is - at least, in my experience - a very good chance that you will be offered work sooner or later. (From reading on the forums, I know that many Proz members are against taking free tests, but personally, I have not had a single bad experience with them. Quite the contrary, actually.) That way, you could save up and invest in your own license for a CAT tool (be it Trados Studio or another tool) later on. A certain element of luck would probably still be needed with regard to actually hearing back from agencies you apply to, but it might be worth a try ...

From a fellow translator who cannot imagine a more interesting job

PS: I have no experience with quoting for jobs here at Proz, so cannot comment on whether this is worth it.
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LegalTranslatr2  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 00:34
portugalski > angielski
+ ...
90% of jobs do not require TRADOS... May 21, 2015

That is a myth. I've been in business for 22 years and I've only been required to use a CAT tool once or twice.

The job offers on this site (mostly looking for matches and other discounts) do not represent jobs in the "real world" where such scams are rare.

Serena Basili wrote:

.I see that 90% of job offers requires CAT tools (mostly Trados) and even with the free trial version it is impossible, I can't get a free version for every job I submit a quote!<


[Edited at 2015-05-21 01:15 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-05-21 01:35 GMT]


 

LegalTranslatr2  Identity Verified
USA
Local time: 00:34
portugalski > angielski
+ ...
Realistic expectations... May 21, 2015

First year of translating = $500 - $1,000
Second year of translating = $1,500 - $8,000


YMMV

Serena Basili wrote:

I just can't get away that easily with the fact that some people who just started as me already have a steady income and are happy while I'm drowning more and more in the field of invisible translators who will never see their dreams come true...I've spent my whole life dreaming of this job and now I see that only rich people can do it and succeed


[Edited at 2015-05-21 02:46 GMT]

[Edited at 2015-05-21 02:47 GMT]


 
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