Past contests page displays info it shouldn't
Thread poster: Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Nov 14, 2012

After the last round of contest (9th), in 2009, the results pages were not visible for a long while.
Recently they were put back, but there is a significant difference between what is displayed and how.
For example, in the English-Hungarian pair, here is the page that used to be publishe
... See more
After the last round of contest (9th), in 2009, the results pages were not visible for a long while.
Recently they were put back, but there is a significant difference between what is displayed and how.
For example, in the English-Hungarian pair, here is the page that used to be published, it is still visible:
http://www.proz.com/?sp=contests&sp_mode=past_contests&sp_sub_mode=view_language&ctlid=1528&from_url=past_contests

The four finalists are displayed, all "anonymous" except for the winning entry. This is fine, this is how it was at the time of the contest ended. Finalists were given the option of displaying their real name, or keeping it "anonymous". Non-finalist entries were not and are not displayed, and this is fine, too.

However, on this page, the display is quite different:

http://www.proz.com/translation-contests/pair/1528

This is the page that is displayed when someone goes to the Member Activities tab, then to Translation Contests, then clicks on the "Winners" at the 9th contest.
This page displays not only the 4 finalist entries, but also the non-finalist entries, WITH THE TRANSLATORS' names and links to their profiles.
This is wrong, because I believe those who did not make it to the finals were not given the option of hiding their name. I guess the option was not offered because the non-finalist entries were never meant to be displayed. Now their entries are displayed, along with their names, ratings and points their entry received. I believe this is wrong, and I hope it will be corrected ASAP, since these pages are getting indexed by Google and such.
One more problem is that entries that were disqualified at the start are also displayed, again, along with the names of their submitters. This is also disturbing. In the Hungarian pair there was one person who made fun of the contest, and instead of a translation, he submitted a text that detailed how stupid the contest was and how dumb the source text is, and how pointless it is to translate it. I remember seeing that submission before it was taken down. There is another one which is a machine translation, originating from a profile that submitted machine translations in many language pairs in that round. That entry was also disqualified, but now it is displayed for all to see.
I believe the display should be the same as it was at the time of the contest, because that's what the participants agreed to.

Katalin
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Jared Tabor
Jared Tabor
Local time: 12:33
SITE STAFF
Showing or not showing non-finalist entries Nov 14, 2012

Hi Katalin,

All entry-submitters were given the option of showing their names publicly, even if they did not make it to the finals or win ("show name if I do not win" was the option on the entry form).

How do other participants feel about this? Do those who elected to show their names publicly but did not make it to the finals round in that particular contest have a preference? Is it better to show non-finalist entries, or to not show them?

Jared


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Changes from past display - you need consent again Nov 14, 2012

Hi Jared,
I do not remember what was on the entry form.
My point is that at the time of the contest, only the finalists entries were shown, this is how all participants saw the display for years.
It is a mistake to change it now for past contests, after the fact, without asking the consent of those involved.
I remember the option to modify the display of names was there after the results were announced, because one of the finalists changed it following comments from other
... See more
Hi Jared,
I do not remember what was on the entry form.
My point is that at the time of the contest, only the finalists entries were shown, this is how all participants saw the display for years.
It is a mistake to change it now for past contests, after the fact, without asking the consent of those involved.
I remember the option to modify the display of names was there after the results were announced, because one of the finalists changed it following comments from others - he decided to show who he was.
At the same time, since the non-finalist entries were never displayed, it is entirely possible that people did not bother hiding their identity, since their entry was not displayed anyway. Had they known their non-winning entry would be displayed, they may have opted for going "anonymous". Or may have left their name there anyway. We don't know. But I think it is a mistake to display these after 3 years, when they probably all forgotten about it.

If you decide for future contests, that you will display ALL entries, fine, but you have to say it at the beginning, so people know what they sign up for. It is not nice to change the rules on the fly, or after the fact.

As to the disqualified entries, I see no reason whatsoever why they should be displayed at all.

I think a few things should be done ASAP:
1. take down the disqualified entries
2. hide the non-finalist entries until you receive consent from their authors

If #2 takes too much time or administrative effort than simply keep the non-finalist entries hidden (both the text and author info), as they were until recently. I assume nobody requested their losing entry to be displayed publicly, did they?

Katalin
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Alessandro Marchesello
Alessandro Marchesello  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:33
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
Wrong assumption Katalin Nov 22, 2012

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

I assume nobody requested their losing entry to be displayed publicly, did they?

Katalin


I didn't win in my pair, but I'm still convinced that my entry is overall better than the winning entry (or at least equivalent), especially considering that I worked alone, without any help or suggestion from my colleagues.

So I'm proud to show my name next to my entry, and I would have been proud of it even if my entry had not made it to the finals.

It's just a matter of self-confidence, I suppose.


Alessandro Marchesello
Freelance Technical Translator, Editor and Copywriter
www.amtranslations.com
[email protected]
LinkedIn


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
You misunderstood Nov 22, 2012

Alessandro Marchesello wrote:

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

I assume nobody requested their losing entry to be displayed publicly, did they?

Katalin




Alessandro,
In the previous rounds entries that did not make it to the finals were not displayed at all. I meant the authors of those entries did not specifically request their entries to be displayed - contrary to how they were hidden for years.
Again, I am talking about the change in how PAST contests results are displayed now.
My point is that you cannot make assumptions either way. ProZ should check with the authors before changing the display method that was used.
If people are OK with displaying their names, it it displayed, if they are not OK, then they have the option of hiding it. I think this is the decent approach.

And, entries that were disqualified, should not be displayed at all. As I said, in the Hungarian pair there is one entry that contains inappropriate text that is not the translation of the source text, and it is now displayed (and indexed by search engines).

Again, I am not affected by this personally, I just don't like when things are changed without considering the consequences.

[Edited at 2012-11-22 17:04 GMT]


 
Roland Nienerza
Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 16:33
English to German
+ ...
I do not see the point - Nov 23, 2012

Whenever I submit a translation I see the check option whether I wish my name to be displayed or not. And I take it that if someone opts out of having his or her name to be displayed the system will be upholding the opt out.

[Edited at 2012-11-24 00:30 GMT]


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Display issue seems to be fixed Nov 23, 2012

It seems the display of past contest had been fixed, now they only show what they used to show.
Thank you, Jared, and I consider this case closed.

Katalin


[Edited at 2012-11-23 23:33 GMT]


 
Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 11:33
SITE FOUNDER
I think they *were* displayed previously Nov 30, 2012

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

It seems the display of past contest had been fixed, now they only show what they used to show.
Thank you, Jared, and I consider this case closed.

Katalin


[Edited at 2012-11-23 23:33 GMT]

Hi Katalin,

I think you are incorrect; I believe that non-finalist entries were displayed in the past. (Maybe not most recently, but before.) I see no reason that they can not be displayed. I think it makes sense to display them.

I am open to hearing arguments that they should not be displayed... ? But the notion that they can't be displayed because they weren't, well, my recollection is different.


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I think it is resolved Nov 30, 2012

Henry,
You have all the backups on your servers, so you are in a much better position to check the actual facts, there is no need to argue whose recollection is correct. The last real contest was 3 years ago, that is fairly long, given all the changes that can happen on a site like this.

The first URL in my first post is the old URL, this is what used to be displayed, I visited the contest area time to time and I saw no changes to this page.
There was clearly some techni
... See more
Henry,
You have all the backups on your servers, so you are in a much better position to check the actual facts, there is no need to argue whose recollection is correct. The last real contest was 3 years ago, that is fairly long, given all the changes that can happen on a site like this.

The first URL in my first post is the old URL, this is what used to be displayed, I visited the contest area time to time and I saw no changes to this page.
There was clearly some technical glitch with the new URL (that I also included in my original post), because entries that were disqualified (for good reasons) were displayed, along with the profile link of their authors. (This had been fixed, so you cannot see it now.)

I am not arguing wheather it is a good or bad idea to display the non-finalist entries. It is OK either way, PROVIDED that it is clear at the beginning.

For the last time: the problem was (but it is resolved now) is that when the contest ended (again, past contests, years ago) people saw that their non-finalist entries were not displayed. It is entirely possible that they would have changed the setting (as to display their names or remain anonymous), had they seen that their entries were displayed.
Some people may have wanted their names shown, even though previously they set it to "anonymous", or the other way around. We don't know, and we cannot assume either way.

The point of my original post was that it is not fair to change the display status AFTER the contestants were made to believe (as they saw it with their own eyes) that the non-finalist entries were not displayed, hence it didn't matter what setting they chose. (So they did not bother to change it.) What happened here is that the display status changed 3 years after the initial way of displaying the results.

I think you could display ALL entries, or only the winner, or first three, or whatever for future contests, it is OK, as long as it is clear from the beginning for all participants, and things don't change on the fly.

Henry, I have no personal interest in this - my name was and is displayed next to all my contest entries. I just think that publicizing information is a sensitive issue, and when you display info that previously wasn't displayed for a long time, you better ask for consent. Even if it is not required by any rules, or law or whatever, it is at least basic courtesy, I think.
But I believe in this case it was more of a technical glitch (perhaps a filter was excluded) than anything else, and it is fixed now.
Katalin
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Henry Dotterer
Henry Dotterer
Local time: 11:33
SITE FOUNDER
I get it Nov 30, 2012

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
For the last time...

Oh, I understood your post, no need to clarify further. I just think you are wrong in saying that non-finalist entries were never displayed in past contests. You are right, too, though: since you have raised the question, we do need to check it. (Oddly enough, in this instance, doing so is non-trivial). That's the reason display has been turned off temporarily.


 
Katalin Horváth McClure
Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 11:33
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Easier solution? Nov 30, 2012

Henry,

It seems that now you are willing to devote resources to finding out how the display looked like 3 years ago or earlier - but what are you trying to accomplish?

If you want to display the non-finalist entries for past contests, along with their authors, then wouldn't it be easier and more transparent to simply ask those people whether they want to be anonymous or want their names displayed?
It is true, that getting answers from all those people would probab
... See more
Henry,

It seems that now you are willing to devote resources to finding out how the display looked like 3 years ago or earlier - but what are you trying to accomplish?

If you want to display the non-finalist entries for past contests, along with their authors, then wouldn't it be easier and more transparent to simply ask those people whether they want to be anonymous or want their names displayed?
It is true, that getting answers from all those people would probably take a long time...
However, if the ultimate goal is to display those entries, wouldn't it be easier to display them right away with the "anonymous" setting for the author, and provide an option for the actual authors to change that setting to public display of their own names? In that case, a simple email to them, saying "your entry for X contest is displayed anonymously on such and such page, if you want to display your name, use such and such setting on such and such page" would be quite sufficient, and would solve the problem, I think.

This approach seems to me as fair, safe and "complaint-proof", and would accomplish the goal of getting the non-finalist entries displayed as well (if that is the goal).

Katalin


[Edited at 2012-11-30 20:04 GMT]
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Past contests page displays info it shouldn't






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