| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16] > | Complimentary TM-Town membership for ProZ.com members Thread poster: Jared Tabor
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:10
Member (2008)
Italian to English
| I would not agree | Apr 25, 2016 |
Jared Tabor wrote: Hello Tomas, Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
ProZ professional guidelines for translation service providers say:
Treat all sensitive information as confidential, and take steps to protect that confidentiality.
No one is asking you to share work which is covered by NDAs or the like. All kinds of examples of your work can be used, including, for instance, the sample translations you have already published in your ProZ.com profile. Jared
Before any of the sample translations I have published in your ProZ.com profile are used for any purpose, I would expect to be asked to give my permission. I hope that is the case.
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 08:10
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Meta Arkadia wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
I think Tomas Mosler raises a very important point. He didn't.
You think he didn't. I think he did. I believe we're all entitled to an opinion still?
I'm aware of the existence of Deshi, but most of what has been said on the forum has not been about that; it's been about us uploading our TMs.
I'd like to know if the founders of TM-Town see any usefulness of their system for selecting translators who specialise in the marketing field. I appreciate that that's just one situation - one that doesn't apply to a vast number of translators - and it may account for some (though not much) of my scepticism. Is this free membership of any use to marketing translators?
| | | | | Use of sample translations | Apr 25, 2016 |
Tom in London wrote: Jared Tabor wrote: Hello Tomas, Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
ProZ professional guidelines for translation service providers say:
Treat all sensitive information as confidential, and take steps to protect that confidentiality.
No one is asking you to share work which is covered by NDAs or the like. All kinds of examples of your work can be used, including, for instance, the sample translations you have already published in your ProZ.com profile. Jared Before any of the sample translations I have published in your ProZ.com profile are used for any purpose, I would expect to be asked to give my permission. I hope that is the case.
Hi Tom,
It could be a good idea to refresh part of the original announcement in this thread:
Jared Tabor wrote: In addition, as a ProZ.com member you are eligible for a free "Starter" membership at TM-Town (a 48 USD value). All you need to do is register and enter at least one "qualifying document" at TM-Town by April 30th, 2016. A "qualifying document" reflects your areas of expertise, and is what allows TM-Town to match you to clients searching for professionals in those areas. It can be any of the following:
- a translation memory (TM) file you have created
- a glossary you have created
- a "Deshi" analysis file ("Deshi" is the TM-Town application that analyses your work offline so that you don’t have to upload it)
- a sample translation pushed from your ProZ.com portfolio
- a sample you provide by translating something from TM-Town’s source text library
This means that you are offered the opportunity of entering a "qualifying document" that, among other possibilities, could be a sample translation pushed from your ProZ.com portfolio. This is an action that you may take if you want to do it. Nobody is planning to make unauthorized use of the sample translations you have published in your ProZ.com profile (or any other document you choose to use).
Regards,
Enrique
| | | | | What constitutes "areas of expertise" | Apr 25, 2016 |
Re:
A "qualifying document" reflects your areas of expertise.....
In my professional organization, you prove expertise by background. For example, I have a teaching degree and teachng experience and that establishes my expertise in education. An engineer having worked in the automotive industry has expertise in those areas. A (former) medical doctor or nurse has expertise in medicine.
The fact of having translated material in a specialized area does not determine expertise. The translation can be done badly or non-expertly, including over a longer period of time. It might be done with the help of an expert in the field - for example proofreading by a medical expert of a medical document.
If this group assigns "expertise" based on such documents (the word "qualify" loses all meaning), then there is possible misrepresentation to clients, and that includes misrepresenting those translators who do have actual expertise, but respect the confidentiality of their clients by not uploading the translations they have done.
The whole thing is disturbing, starting with the idea of "accreditation".
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| Please, change the link for this forum. | Apr 25, 2016 |
The whole of the home page is linking to this forum. We have to carefully click in the job posts so that we don't end up here. Please change the link back to the normal way. Everybody knows about TM-Town already.
| | | | | Problem fixed | Apr 25, 2016 |
Natanael de Paula Sousa wrote:
The whole of the home page is linking to this forum. We have to carefully click in the job posts so that we don't end up here. Please change the link back to the normal way. Everybody knows about TM-Town already.
Hello Natanael,
Thanks for reporting this. The problem has been fixed by now. I apologize for the inconvenience.
Best regards,
Alejandro
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Enrique Cavalitto wrote:
This is an action that you may take if you want to do it.
Enrique, I know this was aimed at the other Tom, but to clarify my position anyway:
I'm aware of the fact that this is voluntary. What I'm concerned about is that ProZ on the one hand promotes confidentiality (and ask members to endorse it). It says "do not share". That is good.
Yet on the other hand it very prominently (more prominently than the professional guidelines - there is a big banner on the front page) suggests (and promotes the idea/solution) that translators should share their work with third party. (And in addition it improves TM Town directory ranking for those who upload more data.)
If you don't see any contradiction, fine, but I do. Excuse my imperfect parallel, but this is a bit as if this was a website for vegetarians, with rules saying "members should try to avoid eating meat", and then that very same website would host an ad campaign for a pork producer. Sure, eating or not eating pork is voluntary, but I'm concerned about a potential conflict of principles so to speak.
Cut short:
1) Does ProZ by default consider translated materials confidential?
2) Is ProZ for translation sharing, or against?
Nobody is planning to make unauthorized use...
The problem is that TM-Town in my opinion kind of invites (misleads) translators to what could often seem to be unauthorized use (sharing) of translations (by them). There is a translator who shared 470k translation units via TM Town - should I really believe that his clients authorized sharing of this volume with third parties?
Jared Tabor wrote:
sample translations
Jared, sure, but these are, at least in my case, exceptions.
Meta Arkadia wrote:
He didn't.
Hans, it is interesting that you imply arguments in favour of TM-Town are ignored, yet you "rebut" views of others without any argument, only with some quasi-ironic comment. If you prefer other type of discussion than ad rem, good luck. :)
Michael J.W. Beijer:
...all that gets uploaded is a code of some kind, which is used only to calculate your ranking. (...) See: "Deshi"
Michael, if Deshi only uses some meta data, why it says here https://www.tm-town.com/desktop-application#how-it-works that "Deshi analyzes your work offline and allows you to freely redact any sensitive terms in the process"?
I mean, this seems to be an edited termbase, rather than meta information without any actual translated content? (For me, if a translation is confidential, then the whole translation is confidential, not only brand/personal names etc.)
Further, in FAQs, TM Town indicates that aligned work is better than a monolingual glossary, which Deshi seems to create in the video here: https://www.tm-town.com/getting-started#deshi So it seems to me those applying at least some caution in regards to intelectual property & confidentiality are penalized by TM Town.
| | | | | confidentiality | Apr 25, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
I consider ALL my work to be covered implicitly by an NDA, even though I've only ever signed a few.
Sheila, I would only add that even if it was not for this "default" position, several - if not most/all - T&I associations request confidentiality of "work information" from their members.
And thank you for sharing my concerns.
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I too received this offer. I replied I could not upload my TMs. They replied I could just upload my sample translations instead; they are in a public area anyway. I said I would not mind, and asked if the "free" was "for good". Got an answer that no, it was just for one year.
Long story short, I am not willing to pay for a platform that will potentially allow me to get more work. I truly believe most of us are not looking for more work but for better work.
And then, wh... See more I too received this offer. I replied I could not upload my TMs. They replied I could just upload my sample translations instead; they are in a public area anyway. I said I would not mind, and asked if the "free" was "for good". Got an answer that no, it was just for one year.
Long story short, I am not willing to pay for a platform that will potentially allow me to get more work. I truly believe most of us are not looking for more work but for better work.
And then, what client does not check ProZ profile of a prospective supplier? I personally cannot have up-to-date and complete profiles on several platforms at the same time. It's just draining all my time away. And ProZ is not about "you" finding them but rather about "they" finding you (at least, according to my experience). ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:10
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
| Deshi explained | Apr 25, 2016 |
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote: Michael J.W. Beijer:
...all that gets uploaded is a code of some kind, which is used only to calculate your ranking. (...) See: "Deshi" Michael, if Deshi only uses some meta data, why it says here https://www.tm-town.com/desktop-application#how-it-works that "Deshi analyzes your work offline and allows you to freely redact any sensitive terms in the process"? I mean, this seems to be an edited termbase, rather than meta information without any actual translated content? (For me, if a translation is confidential, then the whole translation is confidential, not only brand/personal names etc.) Further, in FAQs, TM Town indicates that aligned work is better than a monolingual glossary, which Deshi seems to create in the video here: https://www.tm-town.com/getting-started#deshi So it seems to me those applying at least some caution in regards to intelectual property & confidentiality are penalized by TM Town.
Hi Tomas,
Deshi produces a .town "synopsis" file, which you can open in a text editor, so you can see exactly what gets sent to TM-Town. Basically, it is a type of term extraction/analysis file, which contains only loose terms (used for matching in the online system). The extra redaction step you mentioned allows you to redact any potential terms you don't want to send to TM-Town. You thus have complete control over what you upload, and it is easily possible not to violate even the strictest of NDAs. Kevin (the main developer) is a very clever guy, and he created Deshi to allow people to upload their material, while not violating any NDAs. I really doubt anyone is going to find a loophole.
This video makes it all very clear: https://www.tm-town.com/desktop-application
Michael
[Edited at 2016-04-25 21:34 GMT]
| | | | ..... (X)
Local time: 16:10
| Let's define sharing | Apr 25, 2016 |
Hi Tomas,
Thanks for your points. I think it is important that we clearly define the word 'sharing' so that we are all on the same page.
Tomas Mosler, DipTrans IoLET MCIL MITI wrote:
The problem is that TM-Town in my opinion kind of invites (misleads) translators to what could often seem to be unauthorized use (sharing) of translations (by them).
When discussing sharing I think it is important we answer two questions explicitly -
1) What? (i.e. what exactly is being shared)
2) With whom? (i.e. with whom are we sharing that information)
For translators, the what could be any of the following:
- a translation memory file
- a glossary
- a single term
- a source document
- a translation (target document)
- a terminology synopsis file (i.e. what Deshi creates)
The answer to with whom could be:
- a machine
- a trusted colleague
- a client
- a 3rd party
- the public
In the case of TM-Town, the documents you upload are private and can not be made public. Therefore the 'with whom' when talking about TM-Town is only one of the first two (a machine or a trusted colleague). Let's explore those:
1) a machine
You are sharing your document with TM-Town so that it can learn your areas of expertise and recommend jobs that are a match for you through our Nakōdo search engine. Our confidentiality and data usage policies make it clear that any document that you load into TM-Town is treated as follows:
- It can be browsed online, and downloaded as a file, ONLY BY YOU. Other TM-Town users can not see or download it.
- TMs you upload can NOT be searched or leveraged by others.
- TMs you upload will NOT be sold or made public.
- The only information made available to others concerning a TM you upload is (1) the language pair, (2) the number of translation units, (3) the (up to three) tags you enter to categorize the content.
- It is possible to elect not to show even this information to others.
- TMs you upload are NOT used to train machine translation ("MT").
In other words, to use sharing in this sense, you are 'sharing' a file with TM-Town just like you would be 'sharing' a file with your email provider (a 3rd party), Dropbox (a 3rd party), etc.
2) a trusted colleague
TM-Town has a feature wherein you can share a document with another TM-Town member for purposes of collaboration. See this blog post for more details: Sharing Files with Collaborators.
Anyway, given the above, you may still have work that is covered by a NDA or such. In that case we have other options.
1) Deshi
With Deshi, no aligned data or full segments are sent to TM-Town. As Michael said, you will only send a .town file which contains terms from the source document. You have full control to redact any terms you do not want to send to TM-Town (i.e. terms that may be confidential).
2) Sample translation
If you are still not comfortable with Deshi, you could submit a sample translation in your field of expertise. We have a sample source text library you can use, or you can upload your own sample translation. We also have a feature to easily send your ProZ.com portfolio samples to TM-Town.
Merab Dekano wrote:
I truly believe most of us are not looking for more work but for better work.
This is exactly the goal of TM-Town. By matching you to work in your areas of expertise, and allowing you to filter out jobs that don't meet your rate criteria through our 'Don't Bother Me Rate', we aim to help find you better work.
| | | | ..... (X)
Local time: 16:10
| Many ways to demonstrate expertise on your TM-Town profile | Apr 26, 2016 |
Maxi Schwarz wrote:
Re:
A "qualifying document" reflects your areas of expertise.....
In my professional organization, you prove expertise by background. For example, I have a teaching degree and teachng experience and that establishes my expertise in education. An engineer having worked in the automotive industry has expertise in those areas. A (former) medical doctor or nurse has expertise in medicine.
The fact of having translated material in a specialized area does not determine expertise. The translation can be done badly or non-expertly, including over a longer period of time. It might be done with the help of an expert in the field - for example proofreading by a medical expert of a medical document.
If this group assigns "expertise" based on such documents (the word "qualify" loses all meaning), then there is possible misrepresentation to clients, and that includes misrepresenting those translators who do have actual expertise, but respect the confidentiality of their clients by not uploading the translations they have done.
The whole thing is disturbing, starting with the idea of "accreditation".
As I have mentioned earlier in this thread there are many ways that a client visiting your TM-Town profile can ascertain your expertise including:
- Years of experience
- Education
- Associations and Memberships
- Certified Pro Status
- KudoZ points
- WWA feedback
- Sample translations
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| I can add only one language pair | Apr 26, 2016 |
Hi,
I have linked my ProZ profile to TM town but it only allows me to add one language pair. How do I add the second one?
Thanks,
Izabela
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Sheila Wilson wrote:
I believe we're all entitled to an opinion still?
Not if that opinion is completely unfounded.
Michael J.W., Kevin himself, and I have tried to explain repeatedly how TM-T works, what the risks are, and what benefits it offers. It's not the Holy Grail, but it can help in a number of areas. If you don't trust it, don't use it. I trust Kevin, and, at least in this case, ProZ.
Cheers,
Hans
| | | | ..... (X)
Local time: 16:10
Hi Izabela,
You can add a 2nd language pair by going to your account settings page. Hover over the 'About Me' section and you will see a blue 'Edit' button appear. Click the 'Edit' button and scroll down toward the bottom. You will see your current language pair and a blue link below which says 'Add Another Language Pair'.
Kevin
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