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Discussion: Do translators like to work with an agency that ask for a sample
Thread poster: MttMortensen
Laura Gentili
Laura Gentili  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 14:43
Member (2003)
English to Italian
+ ...
My experience Jul 31, 2019

After 25 years in the translation business, I still do translation tests and I think it's a fair method to assess translation skills.
Some additional remarks:
- It's important to agree on rates before the translation test, otherwise it might be a waste of time for both sides
- The translation company should send some feedback
- There shouldn't be any badly written text in the source text, otherwise you waste time wondering whether the sloppy text was inserted on purpose,
... See more
After 25 years in the translation business, I still do translation tests and I think it's a fair method to assess translation skills.
Some additional remarks:
- It's important to agree on rates before the translation test, otherwise it might be a waste of time for both sides
- The translation company should send some feedback
- There shouldn't be any badly written text in the source text, otherwise you waste time wondering whether the sloppy text was inserted on purpose, how you should handle it, are you allowed to insert translator's notes etc.
- As other posters said, I work for several translation companies which never asked for a translation test and I passed tens of tests for other companies which I never heard from after the test. Therefore I ask myself: if they already have tens of translators in my language pair, why do they need translation tests from new translators?

HTH,
Laura
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John Fossey
John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 09:43
Member (2008)
French to English
+ ...
Tests and agencies Jul 31, 2019

I have done a number of tests over the years, some of which have led to good clients but others were a waste of time. Tests are as much a test of the agency as a test of the translator. How efficiently and fairly the test is administered is a reflection of the agency. A few thoughts:

- the rate has to be agreed first, otherwise we may both be wasting our time.
- a free test can only be done when there is time between other paying jobs. This might mean a delay of weeks or month
... See more
I have done a number of tests over the years, some of which have led to good clients but others were a waste of time. Tests are as much a test of the agency as a test of the translator. How efficiently and fairly the test is administered is a reflection of the agency. A few thoughts:

- the rate has to be agreed first, otherwise we may both be wasting our time.
- a free test can only be done when there is time between other paying jobs. This might mean a delay of weeks or months when I am busy. Or the test may never get done in this case.
- I generally decline to do free tests for a client I have already done work for, as they should already know my abilities. I may make an exception to this for a good client who is required by their potential end client to submit samples. But then the test is for the end client, not the agency.
- the test should be reviewed by an experienced and qualified native of the target language. It's amazing how many non-native reviewers think they know the target language better than a native.
- as others have mentioned, agencies who require tests often require many other hoops to jump through. Whereas some of the best clients have the simplest "onboarding" procedures.
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MttMortensen
Dan Lucas
Josephine Cassar
 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:43
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Unpaid tests get done only if there's time Jul 31, 2019

John Fossey wrote:
- a free test can only be done when there is time between other paying jobs. This might mean a delay of weeks or months when I am busy. Or the test may never get done in this case.

This is important. For one prospective client I agreed to do a free test, but it was a very busy time and many weeks later I still hadn't got round to it. I apologised, but we never did work it out.

Paid tests are full jobs and the deadlines are set in stone, just like any other project. So if you need someone urgently, pay. For a short test it's not as if it will cost much, after all.

Incidentally, on the need for the translator to be patient, I did a good deal of work in July for a new client for whom I successfully took a test in... April 2018. Took them 16 months to allocate me projects, but they got there in the end.

Regards,
Dan


Michele Fauble
Joshua Parker
MttMortensen
 
Larissa Hanko
Larissa Hanko  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:43
English to German
+ ...
ok if it's short Jul 31, 2019

I agree with most of the other responses, if it's a short text it's okay. A while ago someone wanted an entire manual translated "as a test", but I think most translators can see through such ruses. 200-250 words sounds reasonable to me. I can also understand if some more experienced translators refuse to do free tests or are too busy - this might even be a good thing since it gives those who aren't on that level yet a chance to prove themselves and at the same time the agency knows that the per... See more
I agree with most of the other responses, if it's a short text it's okay. A while ago someone wanted an entire manual translated "as a test", but I think most translators can see through such ruses. 200-250 words sounds reasonable to me. I can also understand if some more experienced translators refuse to do free tests or are too busy - this might even be a good thing since it gives those who aren't on that level yet a chance to prove themselves and at the same time the agency knows that the person doing the test will actually be available.Collapse


 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
The proof of the pudding is in eating Jul 31, 2019

Although beginning my career as a translator I was excited to check and prove my competence doing "free tests", soon I realized it cost me over $100 for several hours--in vain: no feedback (but rare "It's a nice job, yet there're some mistakes, you know..."), no styleguides or approved samples, no decent rates and terms. Nothing.

Furthermore, at least in the ex-USSR (CIS), agencies/middlemen often split up paid (!) projects into 400+ word "free tests". Why, there're "free tests" for
... See more
Although beginning my career as a translator I was excited to check and prove my competence doing "free tests", soon I realized it cost me over $100 for several hours--in vain: no feedback (but rare "It's a nice job, yet there're some mistakes, you know..."), no styleguides or approved samples, no decent rates and terms. Nothing.

Furthermore, at least in the ex-USSR (CIS), agencies/middlemen often split up paid (!) projects into 400+ word "free tests". Why, there're "free tests" for editors and proofreaders too)


So, if my (1) credentials, (2) portfolio, (3) references, and (4) a short interview is allegedly not enough for a prospect, I suspect they are just looking for the needy and naive volunteers to replenish the ever churning and vanishing line of biz-unaware bottom-feeders, looking for someone sillier than themselves. However, "you don't have to eat the whole egg to tell if it's rotten".

And how an agency could prove its business solvency and competence, I wonder?

One of my then-soon-to-be direct clients (CEO) called me via Skype, we had a smalltalk, discussed the terms and responsibilities, then he sent me a one-paragraph passage from some project and demanded to translate it. When I asked for a styleguide or an approved sample/glossary and the audience, he replied: "Sure! Welcome aboard!"

It took us some 15 minutes to make everything clear: a real free test for both parties.
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Eva Stoppa
Eva Stoppa  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 14:43
English to German
+ ...
In which other professions are free work samples a usual thing to do? Aug 2, 2019

I have never heard of -- for example -- hairdressers having to do a free hair cut on one side of the head or similar things.

Even short Translation tests do cost my time. So some Feedback is the least I'd ask of such an agency. Instead, when I once did such a free sample test, I never heard back from that agency, so I decided to write an email asking for Feedback. That was almost considered an Insult since the PM said it was not her Task to give Feedback. I just failed, .
... See more
I have never heard of -- for example -- hairdressers having to do a free hair cut on one side of the head or similar things.

Even short Translation tests do cost my time. So some Feedback is the least I'd ask of such an agency. Instead, when I once did such a free sample test, I never heard back from that agency, so I decided to write an email asking for Feedback. That was almost considered an Insult since the PM said it was not her Task to give Feedback. I just failed, .

So why should any translator be willing to invest their precious time into doing unpaid work? What does this prove anyway? A bad translator can get someone else to do the sample test for them in order to get a foot into an agencies' doorstep.
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Esther Pugh
Esther Pugh  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:43
Member (2014)
English to German
+ ...
I actually like them Aug 2, 2019

I have been in the business for more than 15 years, and I still do them on occasion, and no, they don't bother me one bit.

On occasion means maybe twice a year. I only do them if I have enough time, and I have to admit, I actually enjoy doing them. Why? They are short enough, the text passages are usually new to me and interesting enough (new subject matter, new company, new thoughts, new ideas), and it's a fun distraction from my day-to-day business (where you work with mostly the
... See more
I have been in the business for more than 15 years, and I still do them on occasion, and no, they don't bother me one bit.

On occasion means maybe twice a year. I only do them if I have enough time, and I have to admit, I actually enjoy doing them. Why? They are short enough, the text passages are usually new to me and interesting enough (new subject matter, new company, new thoughts, new ideas), and it's a fun distraction from my day-to-day business (where you work with mostly the same people, and with similar topics/contents all the time).

I usually find them interesting, and sometimes I get paid to do them. I'd rather do a free test translation than my accounting and invoicing. What can I say? I love my job.

BUT - although I appreciate a little distraction here and there, I have to say that whenever I have accepted a FREE test trans, it turned into literally nothing. Not always. Most of the time, though (maybe 80%). No job, no partnership, no nothing. So I have been wondering why I am asked to do them. I usually get good feedback, and never hear back. The paid ones - completely different story. They lead to paid jobs in 80% of all cases. Agencies are unpredictable. You just need to find the good ones and keep them happy.
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Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 21:43
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
In which professions? Aug 2, 2019

In which other professions are free work samples a usual thing to do?

Music, writing, teaching, programming...the list goes on and on. Actually, probably hairdressers too, if they're signing for, say, hair styling for a movie shoot.
If you want to be "like all the other professions", by all means mandate that your clients interview you in person like those professions do.


 
Jocelin Meunier
Jocelin Meunier  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:43
English to French
+ ...
Yes but Aug 3, 2019

I don't mind translation tests, it only seems fair to me. However, there are conditions:
- rates should be discussed first. Unpaid tests are already time taken from our work, so we should at least know before-hand if we will get paid correctly.
- there should be a feedback. Either positive or negative, it is always better to see what went well or wrong.
- yes, put a translator on the correction. This is my own experience speaking here (and therefore, my own biases), but agencie
... See more
I don't mind translation tests, it only seems fair to me. However, there are conditions:
- rates should be discussed first. Unpaid tests are already time taken from our work, so we should at least know before-hand if we will get paid correctly.
- there should be a feedback. Either positive or negative, it is always better to see what went well or wrong.
- yes, put a translator on the correction. This is my own experience speaking here (and therefore, my own biases), but agencies don't seem to actually know how translation work, in general. Some will "correct" it by simple comparison with their text, without pondering on why this or that is translated that way.
- most important of all: if you test someone and they pass, give them work. I think I have 2 or 3 agencies that said I passed their test with flying colors and then I never heard of them ever again, even with reminders.
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Adam Warren
 
DZiW (X)
DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
Expertus Aug 4, 2019

Unlike translation agencies, employers/direct clients--

1) are just temporarily* looking for a limited number of promising/recognized specialists for real projects;

2) declare the terms and requirements in advance, not after "testing";

3) check references, credentials, portfolio (samples), and a short interview makes all the answers clear; if it's a specific project, they may offer a paid test;

4) never play d
... See more
Unlike translation agencies, employers/direct clients--

1) are just temporarily* looking for a limited number of promising/recognized specialists for real projects;

2) declare the terms and requirements in advance, not after "testing";

3) check references, credentials, portfolio (samples), and a short interview makes all the answers clear; if it's a specific project, they may offer a paid test;

4) never play dirty, imposing "novice/best rates", "discounts", "60+ days payment", "re-testing", and other lowball tricks and hidden costs;

5) also often pay all or part of the candidates' expenses (e.g. travel and hotel bills).


 Actually, it's a good (and sensible) business practice and works fine at least for interpreters (specialists working with people, not papers--like translators). That's why a musician, a writer, a teacher, a programmer, or any decent specialist when asked to do a "free test" will say goodbye and just walk away--without even starting a free painting, a free bestseller, a demo lesson, or a code. What could you offer me for free?
Business = 2 × (Trust + Respect)

The real trust and respect is always mutual, never unilateral...
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Morano El-Kholy
 
Maxi Schwarz
Maxi Schwarz  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:43
German to English
+ ...
considerations Aug 6, 2019

As a freelance professional, as opposed to an employee, I do work for different clients. A properly done translation takes time - say 30 min. or more. If I start doing sample translations for every new client who comes along, I'd be giving away several hundred dollars of free work, and spending time doing that free work, which I cannot then spend on my actual work that I am being paid to do. I am also not convinced that a client knows how to judge my skill. Surely the certification and/or de... See more
As a freelance professional, as opposed to an employee, I do work for different clients. A properly done translation takes time - say 30 min. or more. If I start doing sample translations for every new client who comes along, I'd be giving away several hundred dollars of free work, and spending time doing that free work, which I cannot then spend on my actual work that I am being paid to do. I am also not convinced that a client knows how to judge my skill. Surely the certification and/or degrees we've been awarded after examination by competent bodies should be more than sufficient.

MttMortensen wrote:

We ask that these samples be Pro Bono since this will be one of the deciding factors on choosing translators for projects (we look at other areas as well, timeliness, professionalism, etc.).

I do not tell my dentist or accountant that they should do some free work for me, because that helps me in choosing them. Perhaps I have a personal need in this regard, but it is not their role to help me out of my dilemma - and certainly not free of charge. The companies who hired me when I was new to the profession started off with small jobs, and then expanded to larger ones as I proved my competence.

I can understand it can be frustrating, especially if you're a senior translator who has been in the industry 15+ years.

It isn't frustrating, because I simply respond what my fee is for such a sample translation, and if the company won't accept this, I move on to the next project for the next client.

And finally, what are some ways you would prefer to have sample graded/reviewed?

By the professional organization that has already examined my abilities under stringent conditions before granting me my certification. The grading has already been done.
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Morano El-Kholy
DZiW (X)
 
Vanessa Anderson
Vanessa Anderson
United States
Sample Aug 21, 2019

When embarking on a new working connection, the customer will frequently ask for a sample translation to tester whether you are the right translator for a specific work. Just as a writer cannot simply tell an agent or editor, I’m a brilliant writer! Nor can we imagine the client to trust that we are as good as we say we are.
If you have already published a story, book or poem, then certainly you can point your client to this as proof of previous effort. If you have client evidences on yo
... See more
When embarking on a new working connection, the customer will frequently ask for a sample translation to tester whether you are the right translator for a specific work. Just as a writer cannot simply tell an agent or editor, I’m a brilliant writer! Nor can we imagine the client to trust that we are as good as we say we are.
If you have already published a story, book or poem, then certainly you can point your client to this as proof of previous effort. If you have client evidences on your website or in a brochure, absolutely do provide these. But nothing speaks louder than a sample.
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Discussion: Do translators like to work with an agency that ask for a sample







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