Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
fillette aux traits indécis
English translation:
little girl with vaguely articulated features
Added to glossary by
angela3thomas
May 2, 2017 18:25
7 yrs ago
French term
fillette aux traits indécis
French to English
Art/Literary
Archaeology
ancient art
Hi again!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44043. Manche de miroir fragmentaire. - Bois. Il représente une jeune fille debout, les jambes réunies, les bras pendant sur les côtés. [...] ***Le visage est celui d'une fillette aux traits indécis***, l'arcade sourcilière, l'oeil et la joue sur le même plan, le nez court, la bouche ronde. La tête était surmontée non d'un calathos mais du chapiteau à deux volutes. TECHNIQUE: Inégale. Le modelé est bon, les ondulations de la perruque incisées avec régularité.
The plate (III) is very poor and only shows this handle from the back.
ATTEMPT: The face is that of a little girl with undifferentiated features, the arch of the eyebrow, the eye, and the cheek on the same plane, the nose short, the mouth round/well-shaped? [last time there was this description, the plate didn't show a "round mouth" sigh....]
ISSUE: Not sure which meaning fits my context. I think the best is undifferentiated but it could be vague, ambiguous, indeterminate, indecisive, hesitant, uncertain etc.
Thanks in advance for any correction or confirmation!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors. Catalog entry.
CONTEXT: 44043. Manche de miroir fragmentaire. - Bois. Il représente une jeune fille debout, les jambes réunies, les bras pendant sur les côtés. [...] ***Le visage est celui d'une fillette aux traits indécis***, l'arcade sourcilière, l'oeil et la joue sur le même plan, le nez court, la bouche ronde. La tête était surmontée non d'un calathos mais du chapiteau à deux volutes. TECHNIQUE: Inégale. Le modelé est bon, les ondulations de la perruque incisées avec régularité.
The plate (III) is very poor and only shows this handle from the back.
ATTEMPT: The face is that of a little girl with undifferentiated features, the arch of the eyebrow, the eye, and the cheek on the same plane, the nose short, the mouth round/well-shaped? [last time there was this description, the plate didn't show a "round mouth" sigh....]
ISSUE: Not sure which meaning fits my context. I think the best is undifferentiated but it could be vague, ambiguous, indeterminate, indecisive, hesitant, uncertain etc.
Thanks in advance for any correction or confirmation!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | with vaguely articulated features |
Christopher Crockett
|
| 3 +3 | little girl with poorly defined features |
mrrafe
|
| 3 +2 | a little girl with indistinct features |
ormiston
|
Proposed translations
+1
18 hrs
Christopher Crockett
Native in English
Specializes in field
M.A., Ph.D. Historian/Art Historian
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
131
Selected
with vaguely articulated features
"The features of the face of the figure are [only] vaguely articulated"
Which is to say that the various features of the face are *there* and are identifiable as what they are (eyebrows, eyes, nose, mouth), but they are not clearly and prominently "articulated" --they lack distinct [to use ormiston's term], detailed articulation.
Which is to say that the various features of the face are *there* and are identifiable as what they are (eyebrows, eyes, nose, mouth), but they are not clearly and prominently "articulated" --they lack distinct [to use ormiston's term], detailed articulation.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
18 mins
|
|
Thanks, Tony. A Close Call --and one which I'm still not completely happy with.
|
|
| neutral |
ormiston
: I'm struggling to visualise articulated features on any face!
2 hrs
|
|
Struggling is good, Orm --it's an indication that your mind is alive. Perhaps I'm being a bit arcane, using (or misusing?) that word in the sense in which art historians use it :"(figurative): Composed of connected parts." Thus the venerable OED.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you!"
+3
56 mins
little girl with poorly defined features
Boldly entering with the benefit of the previous comments -
"Define" is a close etymological relative of decis and conveys the seeming intent that we're talking about the artist's technique, more than the girl's attractiveness or not. For the same reason, mouth might be "circular," a simple geometric attempt. Agreed, "in" the same plane.
"Define" is a close etymological relative of decis and conveys the seeming intent that we're talking about the artist's technique, more than the girl's attractiveness or not. For the same reason, mouth might be "circular," a simple geometric attempt. Agreed, "in" the same plane.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
4 hrs
|
| agree |
JohnMcDove
10 hrs
|
| agree |
ormiston
: maye "ill-defined" might be interpreted less as a criticism of the quality of execution
14 hrs
|
| neutral |
writeaway
: poorly? why such a judgemental term? See Christopher Crockett's suggestions in dbox, especially 'vaguely'.
14 hrs
|
| neutral |
Christopher Crockett
: The features are certainly "defined" --and well enough to identify them and to distinguish them one from another.
17 hrs
|
+2
16 hrs
a little girl with indistinct features
Has not been suggested and I think it may work well we do not know if the lack of definition is deliberate or due to wear
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Christopher Crockett
: That's the sense of it. Though I think that my "vaguely articulated" is a bit more precise.
2 hrs
|
|
Asker is satisfied but I'm still bemused. Speech, joints and lorries can be articulated (and not even vaguely), but facial features?!
|
|
| agree |
Yolanda Broad
12 hrs
|
Discussion
In art hysterical parlance, we can speak of the "articulation" of certain elements (plane of the face, nose, mouth, drapery, etc., even of facades) in terms of their basic form or the clarity of their... well, articulation.
This specific technical usage apparently isn't known to the OED, but it is close to the sense of
7b. Music. The separation of successive notes from one another, individually or in groups, esp. regarded as an aspect of a performer's technique or interpretation; the manner in which this is done.
Sorry if I'm too deep in the jargot for ordinary mortals.
I've seen such an "oh" mouth somewhere else, recently, but I can't think of where it was.
And, of course, there is a (very commonly used) hieroglyphic sign which is simply an open mouth --which probably has nothing at all to do with this figure, perhaps even in its "symbolic" as well as phonetic meaning.
We're asked to buy a pig in a poke here, not having any picture of the thing to go by.
I'm trying to imagine the visage from the description given: eyebrow, eye and cheek in [yes, Tony] the same plane, a stubby nose, [simple] round mouth
Perhaps something like "with vaguely/simply articulated features" is what he means.
And I would say 'in the same plane'...
Perhaps 'sketchy' features — sounds like her face was not particularly finely carved?
Thes Ancient Egyptians must have spent a heck of a lot of time just admiring themselves in all these mirrors!