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harcèlement moral
grand renfermement
This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Mar 14, 2005 15:19
19 yrs ago
French term

droit de cuissage

French to English Other Human Resources woman at work
And here is another one from the same text. They say that bosses try to exploit their "droit de cuissage", especially when promotion time or salary reviews are coming up. I can think of "casting couch" but that is usualy "promotion canapé". Do we talk about "seignuerial rights"?
Proposed translations (English)
4 +7 droit de seigneur
3 +3 employer's right to subject employees to sexual harassment
5 +1 "bedding rights"
4 +1 Lord's first night rights
4 -1 maiden rents
3 abuse of power

Discussion

Patrick McKeown Mar 18, 2005:
Hey CMJ_Trans! No fair! IMVHO, Angela's suggestion covers your question perfectly.
Non-ProZ.com Mar 18, 2005:
I cannot grade this since.... I actually spoke of "extorting sexual favours" and nothing in this list looks anything remotely like that! My main purpose was to see if there was a "terme consacr�" and we seem to have proved not8
Non-ProZ.com Mar 14, 2005:
seigneurial and again.....

Proposed translations

+3
3 mins

employer's right to subject employees to sexual harassment

not sure if there is an actual translation in English
Peer comment(s):
agree Sara Freitas : yes, or to unwanted advances...I think this is more straightforward than a more "literary" translation of the term.
14 mins
thank you Sara
agree Assimina Vavoula
19 mins
merci
agree Gaelle THIBAULT
33 mins
merci
agree Bourth (X) : If the term, as used, is not supposed to encompass the exchange of promotion ets. for sexual favours
54 mins
merci
neutral LAC : BUT, employers do not have this "right", and you need to make sure you don't give the impression that they do. Which is prob. why the French text uses the (in theory) antiquated and outdated "droit de cuissage", rather than a more modern term/expression.
1 hr
merci, agreed
agree Ian Burley (X) : I've been thinking about this for hours. The "right" bothers me. It's a standard French expression but sounds too legal in English. I think "employer's subjection of employees to sexual harassment" would be better.
1 hr
merci, agreed as well
disagree df49f (X) : ??? "employer's RIGHT to subject employees to harassment"????!! //for the literal meaning, see Larousse or any other French dico... // or see also Patrick's link
4 hrs
literally, that's what droit de cuissage means; even in French, who really has the 'droit' to harass anyone? yet the expression is 'droit' de cuissage. I am just as appalled as you are...I did say 'not sure if there is an actual translation in English'.
disagree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : agree with previous disagree...the employer has no "right" here..if y ou say this like this in English, it completely distorts the idea I think
23 hrs
ok, I just gave a literal translation and that's what it means. Thanks. I did say 'not sure if there is an actual translation in English'.
Something went wrong...
+1
14 mins

"bedding rights"

would be understood...the right to bed...says it all, IMO

Peer comment(s):
neutral mportal : what if they worked for the 'bedding' department in a store? I am both educated and English, but it sounds clumsy for the reason I gave
28 mins
no..if it's in quote marks any English speaker will understand..if they are educated
agree Dr Sue Levy (X) : I don't think there's any ambiguity at all - it's a stock expression//Economist article http://polazzo.stuysu.org/india_survey.htm
1 hr
wow...The Economist...well,what can I say? Thanx Sue
neutral Ian Burley (X) : I would't call this a stock expression. And this kind of thing rarely happens in a bed!
1 hr
perhaps not stock but a remnant of Medievalism that makes sense, no?
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+7
8 mins

droit de seigneur


This indicates the hierarchical nature of the thing, and I can't think of a better way to do it in English (I think this French phrase would be understandable to an English-speaking audience - it's fairly common - but 'seigneurial rights' would do it if you want to make it more Englishified).

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Note added at 15 mins (2005-03-14 15:35:20 GMT)
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I think leaving \'droit de cuissage\' as it is would be risky, as it relies on a very good understanding of French on the part of the reader (who, after all, will be reading a translation...). It\'s a nice expression, though, and not quite so... um... graphic as what \'droit de seigneur\' implies.
Reference:

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=377499

Peer comment(s):
agree mportal : although one might object to the concept being expressed, (as I think people would in the UK) this seems to be the best way of rendering the meaning.
37 mins
agree Bourth (X) : That, I believe, is the established expression in English (dating from when the seigneurs spoke French, I guess), but maybe the sentence needs turning around ...
47 mins
agree Pierre POUSSIN : Yessir! Ancien droit...français!
49 mins
agree LAC
1 hr
agree Jean-Charles Pirlet : Aaaaah the good old days.Of french speaking lords of course.It's not droit "du" seigneur? Didn't know this expression.
4 hrs
agree df49f (X)
4 hrs
agree Patrick McKeown
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
17 mins

maiden rents

why not use the exact equivalent, this is an old fashioned word, it's used to convey a new meaning, What do you think
Peer comment(s):
disagree mportal : this a) does not sound English and b) sounds as if it is an effete way of talking about prostitution. Also, to avoid sexism, the term could also refer to men, I presume.
27 mins
Something went wrong...
18 hrs

abuse of power

just another suggestion. Maybe it's too general, but I don't think you should make any reference to first night. That sounds out of place in the context of the workplace in English.
Something went wrong...
+1
6 mins

Lord's first night rights

... is one conventional approximation.
Depending on the register of your text, could you not just leave this jolly little expression in the original and let the readers do the heavy thinking?

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Note added at 7 mins (2005-03-14 15:27:20 GMT)
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Sorry, meant to say that your \"seigneurial rights\" sounds fine, too.

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Note added at 23 hrs 35 mins (2005-03-15 14:54:38 GMT)
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http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/13493.ctl

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Note added at 23 hrs 36 mins (2005-03-15 14:55:56 GMT)
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If anyone is interested in \"first night rights\" (from an entirely academic point of view of course!), you could have a look at this:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/13493.ctl
Peer comment(s):
agree Angela Dickson (X) : I would really like this one to be possible, as it is jolly... but I've never heard of it... :)
21 hrs
thanks, Angela; if you have time you might like to look at the link I added (twice, because nothing ever seems to happen the first time I post!)
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