Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
raidi par une lourde bordure d’or
English translation:
stiffened by/with a heavy gold border
Added to glossary by
Jennifer Levey
Aug 8, 2021 15:07
2 yrs ago
39 viewers *
French term
raidi par une lourde bordure d’or
French to English
Art/Literary
Textiles / Clothing / Fashion
From An Art History Book
Contexte:
Il s’agissait d’un ample kimono de soie d’un rouge impérial, raidi par une lourde bordure d’or, une sorte de manteau de cour pour cérémonie du sacre.
A description of a bathrobe found in Hermann Goering's personal baggage at the end of WW II.
Merci Beaucoup,
Barbara
Il s’agissait d’un ample kimono de soie d’un rouge impérial, raidi par une lourde bordure d’or, une sorte de manteau de cour pour cérémonie du sacre.
A description of a bathrobe found in Hermann Goering's personal baggage at the end of WW II.
Merci Beaucoup,
Barbara
Proposed translations
(English)
5 +5 | stiffened with a heavy gold border | Jennifer Levey |
3 +1 | with a heavy gold border | David Hollywood |
3 | stiffened by a heavy gold edge trim (/trimming?) | Daryo |
Change log
Aug 9, 2021 18:01: Jennifer Levey Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+5
2 hrs
Selected
stiffened with a heavy gold border
Literal translation works perfectly well in this context.
Note from asker:
Thanks. I found, in an immigration doc no less, a reference to collars that are stiffened by using stitching. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Johannes Gleim
: I would also say 'ample silk kimono of imperial red, stiffened by a heavy gold border,'
43 mins
|
agree |
Nicole Acher
: Yes, and maybe « stiffened by » as Johannes suggests, rather than « stiffened with ».
1 hr
|
agree |
SafeTex
3 hrs
|
agree |
Samuël Buysschaert
15 hrs
|
agree |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: I agree that "by" is more accurate than "with".
17 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+1
14 mins
with a heavy gold border
why not?
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Note added at 18 mins (2021-08-08 15:25:50 GMT)
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this refers to saris but same idea
Navy Blue Heavy Gold Border Soft Silk Bridal Wear Saree · Look stunning this traditional navy blue saree in soft silk material embellished with all over weaving ...
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Note added at 19 mins (2021-08-08 15:26:32 GMT)
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can imagine Göring in that lol
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Note added at 20 mins (2021-08-08 15:27:46 GMT)
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some boy lol
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Note added at 20 mins (2021-08-08 15:28:13 GMT)
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and totally despicable
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Note added at 24 mins (2021-08-08 15:31:55 GMT)
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the raidi bit could be rendered as "stiff"
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Note added at 31 mins (2021-08-08 15:39:04 GMT)
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but doesn't fit
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Note added at 18 mins (2021-08-08 15:25:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
this refers to saris but same idea
Navy Blue Heavy Gold Border Soft Silk Bridal Wear Saree · Look stunning this traditional navy blue saree in soft silk material embellished with all over weaving ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 mins (2021-08-08 15:26:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
can imagine Göring in that lol
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2021-08-08 15:27:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
some boy lol
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2021-08-08 15:28:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
and totally despicable
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2021-08-08 15:31:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
the raidi bit could be rendered as "stiff"
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Note added at 31 mins (2021-08-08 15:39:04 GMT)
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but doesn't fit
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Katarina Peters
: reinforced by instead of with
25 mins
|
neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: It important to render the notion of "raidi". As an amateur seamstress, "raidir" is used to describe fabric or a result being sought. "Reinforced" seems close but sewers will know that a reinfrocement does not necessarily stiffen a fabric. ;-)
18 hrs
|
10 hrs
stiffened by a heavy gold edge trim (/trimming?)
a kimono stiffened by a heavy gold edge trim (/trimming?)
a kimono stiffened along the edges by a heavy gold trim (/trimming?)
https://fr.glosbe.com/fr/fr/border un vêtement
https://unlimitedfashion.co.uk/cut-make-trim-mean-fashion/
the way "trim" is used in catalogues seems to confirm this use of "trim"
a kimono stiffened along the edges by a heavy gold trim (/trimming?)
https://fr.glosbe.com/fr/fr/border un vêtement
https://unlimitedfashion.co.uk/cut-make-trim-mean-fashion/
the way "trim" is used in catalogues seems to confirm this use of "trim"
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: Agree with "stiffened by". In sewing a "bordure" generally enveloppes the edge and is stitched to the upper and under sides of the edge. A trim/-ing is generally just on the upper side. if "bordure" is being used accurately, "border" is the most accurate.
8 hrs
|
OK thanks for the info.
|
Discussion
bias binding does on seams for those in the know who sew). However, band is most likely the correct term, but using "bordered by" helps give the visual effect. Does that make sense? We also discussed the fact that, without seeing the garment, there seems to be a possible disconnect between the fact that it is a kimono and that it is described as une sorte du manteau du cour. I had this picture in mind in particular https://fashionheritage.eu/efha-focus-manteau-de-cour-1810/, and the photo blurb does describe a border, plus the edge seems cylindrical and possibly internally stiffened with something. So it may well be that the specific kimono is long, has some kind of train, etc. Without a photo and further info that could shed light on any couture detials, she would however still recommend bordered by a heavy gold band as it covers that kind of detail as well, but doesn't specify any particular technique that might be wrong.
banding Method of finishing a raw edge by applying a wide strip of fabric over it. The strip can also be used to add length to a garment.
I haven't found much to support border as a binding for a hem addition when googling (though I haven't had time to google widely). The photos here http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/k/kimono-making-kimono... show more traditional ones with a contrasting stiff band at the bottom. It also speaks of a neckband. I've only skimmed superficially but it didn't seem to meantion the band at the bottom. You might find some more info by googling kimono construction. I wonder if it was added partly to bind the edges and partly to add weight.
This (modern) link https://www.sewsimplehome.com/2015/04/adding-banded-hem-to-d... also talks of a banded hem. And this of a contrast band https://sewing.craftgossip.com/tutorial-add-a-contrast-hem/2... which would seem to fit with the V & A traditional kimonos as the bands are in contrasting colours.
@ormiston A heavy and slippery fabric could be "wrinkle free" on its own, especially a soft fabric like silk. This gold is probably there mainly for visual effect, or as status symbol.