May 13, 2009 15:10
15 yrs ago
French term
M.A., Ph.D. Historian/Art Historian
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English, English
hausse-col
French to English
Other
Military / Defense
From a passage in a book describing combat situations between the German army and the French resistance in 1944:
La découverte, dans une sacoche de moto d'un hausse-col(25) semble indiquer que ces premiers tués appartenaient à une formation de feldgendarmes.
Note 25 reads:
25. Appelé “collier de chien” par les Comtois.
I assume that this is a uniform's (detachable) "high collar," embellished with the insignia of rank and unit type, but I'm drawing a blank on what, precisely, to call it other than "a uniform's (detachable) 'high collar,' embellished with the insignia of rank and unit type."
Any ideas would be appreciated.
La découverte, dans une sacoche de moto d'un hausse-col(25) semble indiquer que ces premiers tués appartenaient à une formation de feldgendarmes.
Note 25 reads:
25. Appelé “collier de chien” par les Comtois.
I assume that this is a uniform's (detachable) "high collar," embellished with the insignia of rank and unit type, but I'm drawing a blank on what, precisely, to call it other than "a uniform's (detachable) 'high collar,' embellished with the insignia of rank and unit type."
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +4 | collarbone plate |
Bourth (X)
|
References
| Gorget |
Colin Rowe
|
Proposed translations
+4
9 mins
Selected
collarbone plate
For want of a better word, though this must have a name.
It appears to be the metal plate we've all seen some German soldiers wearing in films, attached around their necks at collarbone level.
Le hausse-col est une pièce de l'armure qui protège la base du cou.
Ce mot a donné son nom à l´alouette hausse-col.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausse-col
Picture of a Napoleonic one here:
http://www.waterloo-reconstitution.com/ceinturon_d_officier....
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Note added at 15 mins (2009-05-13 15:26:16 GMT)
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My "A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in all countries and at all times, together with some closely related subjects" by George Cameron Stone defines:
HAUSSE-COL. A defense for the neck variously described as a combination of gorget and bevor worn with a salade, and as a standard of mail, or collar, worn under the plate gorget.
From there I went to gorget plate:
"A small plate shaped like gorget. It was hung on the breast by officers in the middle of the 18th century; it is still worn by Danish officers. It is the last remnant of the complete armor of earleir times."
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Note added at 16 mins (2009-05-13 15:27:38 GMT)
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You could buy a Feldgendearm's gorget plate on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DID-WWII-GERMAN-JAKOB-BLAU-Feldgendarm...
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-05-13 16:25:23 GMT)
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See photo on cover of this book. That's what I was thinking of.
http://www.amazon.com/German-Security-Soldier-1939-45-Warrio...
German Security and Police Soldier 1939-45 (Warrior) by Gordon Williamson
See all pages with references to "gorget plate".
Excerpt - on Page 1: " ... The 'W.M.' prefix to the number plate denoted 'Wehrmacht Marine'. Note the gorget plate and army-issue torch suspended from one his greatcoat buttons. ...
http://www.amazon.com/phrase/gorget-plate/ref=sip_top_0
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-05-13 16:32:01 GMT)
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More here, though called "gorget" rather than "gorget plate". Note the older ones are larger (deeper), more triangular then the WWII ones, possibly more akin to the original "gorget" than the more "decorative" later variety.
The chains of the later variety are something like certain types of metal dog collars!
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Note added at 1 hr (2009-05-13 16:35:52 GMT)
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And if you "Look Inside" the book above, you'll find "gorget" crops up more often than "gorget plate".
It appears to be the metal plate we've all seen some German soldiers wearing in films, attached around their necks at collarbone level.
Le hausse-col est une pièce de l'armure qui protège la base du cou.
Ce mot a donné son nom à l´alouette hausse-col.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausse-col
Picture of a Napoleonic one here:
http://www.waterloo-reconstitution.com/ceinturon_d_officier....
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 mins (2009-05-13 15:26:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
My "A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor in all countries and at all times, together with some closely related subjects" by George Cameron Stone defines:
HAUSSE-COL. A defense for the neck variously described as a combination of gorget and bevor worn with a salade, and as a standard of mail, or collar, worn under the plate gorget.
From there I went to gorget plate:
"A small plate shaped like gorget. It was hung on the breast by officers in the middle of the 18th century; it is still worn by Danish officers. It is the last remnant of the complete armor of earleir times."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2009-05-13 15:27:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
You could buy a Feldgendearm's gorget plate on Ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DID-WWII-GERMAN-JAKOB-BLAU-Feldgendarm...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-05-13 16:25:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
See photo on cover of this book. That's what I was thinking of.
http://www.amazon.com/German-Security-Soldier-1939-45-Warrio...
German Security and Police Soldier 1939-45 (Warrior) by Gordon Williamson
See all pages with references to "gorget plate".
Excerpt - on Page 1: " ... The 'W.M.' prefix to the number plate denoted 'Wehrmacht Marine'. Note the gorget plate and army-issue torch suspended from one his greatcoat buttons. ...
http://www.amazon.com/phrase/gorget-plate/ref=sip_top_0
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-05-13 16:32:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
More here, though called "gorget" rather than "gorget plate". Note the older ones are larger (deeper), more triangular then the WWII ones, possibly more akin to the original "gorget" than the more "decorative" later variety.
The chains of the later variety are something like certain types of metal dog collars!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-05-13 16:35:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
And if you "Look Inside" the book above, you'll find "gorget" crops up more often than "gorget plate".
Note from asker:
| Thanks, I never thought to look at wickipedia.fr. It looks like this is definitely what is meant, but I can't recall ever seeing any sort of metal "dog's collar" like this http://www.waterloo-reconstitution.com/ceinturon%20d%20officier/hausse%20col.JPG hanging around the neck of a *WW2* German soldier. |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Bourth & Colin. You saved me from a serious mistake."
Reference comments
26 mins
Colin Rowe
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
Par Excellence Translations
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: German to English, French to English, Italian to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Reference:
Gorget
Full marks for Bourth!
See Wikipedia extract below:
The gorget was revived as a uniform accessory during Germany's Third Reich, seeing widespread use within the German military and Nazi party organizations. During World War II, it continued to be used by German military and *field police*, which wore metal gorgets as emblems of authority. *German police gorgets* of this period typically were flat metal crescents with ornamental designs that were suspended by a chain worn around the neck. Following the German example, the Finnish Defence Forces still use a metal gorget as a distinguishing mark of the duty conscript of a company, and the highly prussianised Chilean army still use the German style metal gorget in parades and in the uniform of their own Military Police.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorget
See Wikipedia extract below:
The gorget was revived as a uniform accessory during Germany's Third Reich, seeing widespread use within the German military and Nazi party organizations. During World War II, it continued to be used by German military and *field police*, which wore metal gorgets as emblems of authority. *German police gorgets* of this period typically were flat metal crescents with ornamental designs that were suspended by a chain worn around the neck. Following the German example, the Finnish Defence Forces still use a metal gorget as a distinguishing mark of the duty conscript of a company, and the highly prussianised Chilean army still use the German style metal gorget in parades and in the uniform of their own Military Police.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorget
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Frederic Lievre
: Sounds pretty good.... Nice research!!
14 mins
|
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Merci!
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