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so that
process of dying
Apr 17, 2019 11:24
5 yrs ago
2 viewers *
English term

Tinned tongue

Non-PRO English Other Food & Drink Circa 1900
From Hound of the Baskervilles: "It contained a loaf of bread, a tinned tongue, and two tins of preserved peaches."

In England circa 1900, is "tinned tongue" most likely to be ox tongue, or is it simply impossible to determine with any degree of certainty?
Responses
4 +6 tinned ox tongue
4 ox tinned tongue
Change log

Apr 18, 2019 14:50: Tony M changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Rachel Fell, mchd, Tony M

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Discussion

Charles Davis Apr 17, 2019:
Ox Just to expand slightly on my previous comment: the word "ox" is normally used to refer to "a castrated bull used as a draft animal". However, it can simply mean "a domesticated bovine animal kept for milk or meat; a cow or bull" (both definitions from Oxford online).

The following comment is from the Oxford Companion to Food, under "beef":

"The word derives from Anglo-Norman bœuf; less desirable parts of the animal are referred to in English with the Saxon prefix 'ox' (OXTAIL, OX-CHEEK, etc.), reflecting the social divide which existed in England after the Norman Conquest."
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=RL6LAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA74

By the way, Mrs Beeton has recipes for sheep's tongues and pig's tongues too, but I don't think those were usually tinned.
Björn Vrooman Apr 17, 2019:
Lincoln! There is a whole footnote about this in Arthur Conan Doyle's book. I can't copy it here, but it says that it's "usually beef" and mentions Isabella Beeton, who prefers ox to horse, though, as she said, the latter was often substituted by dishonest dealers for the former.

Best
Charles Davis Apr 17, 2019:
I agree that "tongue" refers by default to ox tongue, but it may be worth mentioning that the word "ox" should not be taken literally. It may come from an ox, but usually doesn't; it most often comes from a cow. It was actually often called "beef tongue" or "beef's [sic] tongue" in the period of the book. It just means a bovine tongue. The same is true of oxtail; it's not usually literally the tail of an ox.
Andrew Mason Apr 17, 2019:
Dear Lincoln, It is probably impossible to be 100% certain, but I think it is highly likely that 'ox tongue' is right.

Responses

+6
13 mins
Selected

tinned ox tongue

Traditionally, in the UK, ox tongue is the most usual type used in this kind of product; so much so, that the word 'ox' is usually omitted; only if it were some other kind of tongue would it usually be specifically stated.

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Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2019-04-18 14:53:32 GMT)
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Here in France, calf's tongue is commonly used; sheep's and pig's seem less common.

But as Charles points out, the only type of tongue I've ever seen or heard of being preserved is ox.

Within living memory (1960s), my neighbour was still ploughing with oxen — but referred to them as 'vaches'.
Peer comment(s):
agree Sina Salehi
4 mins
Thanks, Sina!
agree philgoddard
13 mins
Thanks, Phil!
agree kmtext
1 hr
Thanks, KMT!
agree Charles Davis : Caveat posted in discussion area (just in case). // Absolutely. I just thought that some people might not be aware of that.
1 hr
Thanks, Charles! In culinary terms, ox just means beef, and beef just means 'bovine meat' — there is not the same zoological distinction made.
agree katsy
23 hrs
Thanks, Katsy!
agree writeaway : oeuf corse. Asker just wanted reassurance that it was ox tongue.
1 day 1 hr
Thanks, W/A! Yes, I feel sure that's all...
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
16 mins

ox tinned tongue

http://www.tommyspackfillers.com/ration-sub.asp?SubCat=1&Pag...

I found this reference about World War One Canned Meat labels, and most of them are ox tinned tongues. The article shows Australian sheep's tongues and New Zealand canned sheep tongues, but in England it appears to be always ox canned / tinned tongues.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Thanks for confirming my answer, though your suggested word order would not be correct in EN.
1 min
Thanks for the remark, you are right!
neutral writeaway : your posting probably overlapped with the other answer. it's not a confirmation in any case because the word order doesn't play in English
1 day 25 mins
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