| Pagine: [1 2] > | Spontaneous applications to agencies Iniziatore argomento: Anne Diamantidis
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Hi all,
Here's our latest blog article with some tips - or rather dos and don'ts for translators when contacting agencies for sponatenous application (not applying for a specific project): http://bit.ly/KhPklX
I'm curious about your opinion...
Cheers!
Anne
| | | | Samuel Murray 
Paesi Bassi
Local time: 22:17
Membro (2006)
Da Inglese a Afrikaans
+ ...
| What does this mean? | Jun 19, 2012 |
Anne Diamantidis wrote:
Here's our latest blog article with some tips...
What does "spamming" mean in this sentence?
So here’s tip 1: don’t do mass-mailings to agencies. You’re just spamming them when doing so – at least that’s how it may feel to them.
| | | | Anne Diamantidis
Germania
Local time: 22:17
Da Tedesco a Francese
+ ...
AVVIO ARGOMENTO
Hi Samuel,
As stated in the sentence you quote "that’s how it may feel". Feel is subjective, but I know many PMs from agencies, including ours, that just can't stand mass-mailings anymore, sometimes a clear template with placeholders {insert agency name} where the translator did not even bother taking it away and sends it like that. Spamming is perecived as a matter of quantity - but in fact one can spam with just one of such an e-mail.
Regards,
Anne
| | | | | a little humility | Jun 19, 2012 |
Please don't take this as a personal criticism, but I think your approach here is rather lacking in proper humility and customer service skills. As an agency (i.e. an agent, one who works for others), you're essentially the servant of two masters - the text-submitter-as-client and the translator-as-client. Remember that translators will survive perfectly well on their own. Agencies will not survive without translators. So it is the agency that is in a position of dependency here. A good translat... See more Please don't take this as a personal criticism, but I think your approach here is rather lacking in proper humility and customer service skills. As an agency (i.e. an agent, one who works for others), you're essentially the servant of two masters - the text-submitter-as-client and the translator-as-client. Remember that translators will survive perfectly well on their own. Agencies will not survive without translators. So it is the agency that is in a position of dependency here. A good translator allows an agency to work on their behalf in the role of a skilled, high-quality executive secretary-cum-marketing assistant. But it's certainly not for the agency to dictate the terms of the relationship. Translators are not applying to the agent - they are offering the agent an avenue to do more, and perhaps better, work. The agent should be grateful for every such opportunity.
So, I think a better approach would be to reply courteously and respectfully to each and every one of the translators who kindly offer you the (obviously non-exclusive) chance to benefit from brokering their skills and experience, and to then create a quality database of your translator-clients, whom you may contact with appropriate work. That's actually your job.
Good luck with that,
s ▲ Collapse
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Thank you Anne for all your great articles.
| | | | Radian Yazynin
Local time: 23:17
Membro (2004)
Da Inglese a Russo
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Especially when you see something like: Dear [space and comma] or Hello [space and comma], which you receive several times from same persons.
| | | | Anne Diamantidis
Germania
Local time: 22:17
Da Tedesco a Francese
+ ...
AVVIO ARGOMENTO | Dictating the relationship? | Jun 19, 2012 |
septima wrote:
Please don't take this as a personal criticism, but I think your approach here is rather lacking in proper humility and customer service skills. As an agency (i.e. an agent, one who works for others), you're essentially the servant of two masters - the text-submitter-as-client and the translator-as-client. Remember that translators will survive perfectly well on their own. Agencies will not survive without translators. So it is the agency that is in a position of dependency here. A good translator allows an agency to work on their behalf in the role of a skilled, high-quality executive secretary-cum-marketing assistant. But it's certainly not for the agency to dictate the terms of the relationship. Translators are not applying to the agent - they are offering the agent an avenue to do more, and perhaps better, work. The agent should be grateful for every such opportunity.
So, I think a better approach would be to reply courteously and respectfully to each and every one of the translators who kindly offer you the (obviously non-exclusive) chance to benefit from brokering their skills and experience, and to then create a quality database of your translator-clients, whom you may contact with appropriate work. That's actually your job.
Good luck with that,
s
Interesting position - if I understand correctly, you feel that giving some basic tips on how to maximize your chances that an agency notices you "from the mass" is dictating the relationship?
Mmmh, dictating the relationship would be rather when there's an actual job coming in and one of the parties dictates the price, the deadline, the delivery conditions, without asking the other party whether those terms suit them, are doable, correct, etc. don't you think?
Thanks for reminding me what my job is - I can assure you we're doing just that. Which is not incompatible with writing an article to share some humble tips based on daily observations, which aim never was to "dictate the rekationship" but rather express feedback and make suggestions on how to start the relationship off the right foot for both sides and make it a good and fruitful one. Sorry if that's not clear.
[Edited at 2012-06-19 19:07 GMT]
| | | | Anne Diamantidis
Germania
Local time: 22:17
Da Tedesco a Francese
+ ...
AVVIO ARGOMENTO | Thanks Radian and Sevda | Jun 19, 2012 |
Thank you for your feedback and comments!
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| I'm not so spontaneous... | Jun 19, 2012 |
Now and then, when I have time, I visit a bunch of agencies' web sites I find via Proz, alikes, and even Google.
If their operations potentially match my services, I look for a translator application page. Many have an online form that I hope will feed some database, so I won't spam anyone. If it really does, when a PM queries that database for my language pair and my specialty areas, I'll be one of the candidates.
Others have a page where they request applications and ... See more Now and then, when I have time, I visit a bunch of agencies' web sites I find via Proz, alikes, and even Google.
If their operations potentially match my services, I look for a translator application page. Many have an online form that I hope will feed some database, so I won't spam anyone. If it really does, when a PM queries that database for my language pair and my specialty areas, I'll be one of the candidates.
Others have a page where they request applications and CVs from translators via e-mail. Many of these have a list of requirements, which I copy and paste to my message, indicating below each how I match (or fail to match - e.g. Trados vs. WF) each.
As no names are usually given, the '@' is preceded by hr, jobs, hiring, applications, etc., I start with 'Gentlemen,' - unless their web site proudly boasts that they have no males in management positions there. And then I continue with "In response to the invitation on your web site...", to throw any spontaneity to their side. In other words, if they don't want it, they could have removed that invitation already.
Neither side should bother about being humble. It is a proposal for a mutually rewarding business partnership. For those who remember that ancient Transactional Analysis, it should be an adult-adult relationship. Absolutely no point in an agency - or worse, its PM - 'parenting' a child-translator. ▲ Collapse
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Radian Yazynin wrote:
Especially when you see something like: Dear [space and comma] or Hello [space and comma], which you receive several times from same persons.
Don't you hate it when agencies approach you (all to often!) with that initial salutation in their e-mails?
Who does not hate spam?
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septima wrote:
So, I think a better approach would be to reply courteously and respectfully to each and every one of the translators who kindly offer you the (obviously non-exclusive) chance to benefit from brokering their skills and experience, and to then create a quality database of your translator-clients, whom you may contact with appropriate work. That's actually your job.
In the about 15 applications I receive every week, it is quite clear that the translator did not spend a minute visiting our website (which clearly states that we do all work in-house and basically only translate into Spanish), i.e. the translator is spamming.
Should I dedicate an hour or my scarce free time to email this kind of applicants and thank them for not reading our website in the first place? Not really.
I do my best to answer if I can, but feel no obligation to do it. Translators applying to agencies should certainly spend more time researching their market and their potential customers.
[Edited at 2012-06-20 05:39 GMT]
| | | | | From the translator's point of view ... | Jun 20, 2012 |
I agree that mass "spamlike" emails are annoying and often a waste of time.
Writing from the translator's point of view, I sometimes receive what appear to be mass emails asking me to translate into, say, Polish or Swedish, which are not my languages, so clearly the sender hasn't bothered to read anything about me, but nevertheless sends me the message. How tedious ...
Jenny
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| applying logic | Jun 20, 2012 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Translators applying to agencies
Thanks for that phrase, you clarified my thoughts on this issue. This is a view which is also central to the blog article we’re discussing here. It's worth examining it in greater detail, because I think it’s a mistake on the part of agencies about how this all works. Agencies "don’t have the time" to reply to a couple of emails a day or a few a week using a standard template? That’s not right. I think this attitude is actually based on a misunderstanding about who agencies are in this business. A misconception that, of course, agencies have a vested interest in perpetuating.
The truth about the economic relationship involved here is that agencies are fed and clothed by two vital resources: source text providers and translation providers. Without either one of those they’ll go hungry and cold. Agencies should therefore cherish both of those resources equally, and be thankful that money and corresponding money earners are coming their way. But that's not what agencies, or the word "apply", or this article in particular, wish to suggest. The article is a nicely written guideline for translators on how to sell themselves to agencies in ways that flatter agencies' sense of their own power and importance. The recurring keyword in this context is the one you also use here - "apply" (or "applications") - as if agencies were employers to whom one applies on their specified terms. Now, it's one thing to apply for a job, where the employer will offer you loyalty, steady earnings, corporate culture, benefits, appreciation, promotion, free coffee and opportunities for career development in return. But for a translator to "apply" to an agency is, literally, like a business owner and manager "applying" for a personal assistant or other staff member. Bear in mind that agencies do not pay the translator but vice versa - the real economics behind it is that the agency receives a cut of the translator's earnings. In many other industries that's openly acknowledged (and the % cut is smaller). It's lamentable that it's not so in ours, but then, I think things are starting to change.
Starting from those assumptions, the article then coaches translators on how to ingratiate themselves with agency staff, bemoaning the "spamming" of "spontaneous" (i.e. unsolicited) "applications", which, of course, undermine an agency's self-image of power and specialness. But think about it - if, on the other hand, an agency got a slew of hastily written, mass-mailed inquiries from potentially lucrative clients, you can bet there wouldn't be any blog articles then, complaining about how clients don't sell themselves correctly to agencies. The way I see it, translators are as much "clients" for agencies as the source text clients are. Sure, in mass resource terms, the supply of cheap labor may temporarily be to agencies' advantage, but the supply of quality labor certainly is not. Low standard translators may be a dime a dozen, but so are agencies. Top quality translators are actually the "talent" in this movie. Agencies occupy a position of brokering that talent. Agencies should therefore be begging and thankful to hear from translators at all, and should sift diligently through all that "spam" to pick out the winners, because, the way things are going, low quality mass translation will dry up real soon, and middling quality shortly thereafter. Precisely because they are the best, and in demand, most top translators will not have the time, inclination or need to go searching through agencies' webpages to see if they fit the agencies' current needs or meet their terms (of endearment or otherwise). They'll just put themselves out there, always browsing for a better deal than they've received so far. Agencies that discourteously ignore translators who don’t fit their momentary (but not necessarily future) needs, risk regretting it later when they need to grow and expand their range. The translators that got ignored will by then be long gone. The wise agency will try to catch them while they can, because they're the only future the translation business (including the middlemen) has.
| | | | Samuel Murray
Paesi Bassi
Local time: 22:17
Membro (2006)
Da Inglese a Afrikaans
+ ...
Jenny Forbes wrote:
I sometimes receive what appear to be mass emails asking me to translate into, say, Polish or Swedish, which are not my languages...
When that happens to me, I write it off to cultural differences and client ignorance. Well, if I were asked to do Polish or Swedish I'd be less tolerant, but I often get asked for Swahili or suchlike, since I'm an "African" translator. Polish and Swedish are both languages spoken in roughly the same part of the world as French and Spanish, so who knows if you could possibly offer those as well?
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
In the about 15 applications I receive every week, it is quite clear that the translator did not spend a minute visiting our website (which clearly states that we do all work in-house and basically only translate into Spanish)...
Well, your web site mentions "Spanish" only on the main page, and in such a way that unless one reads very carefully it could be understood to mean "in Spain" and not "into Spanish". None of the other pages mention your language combination, and the only way to reach your main page from a sub page is by clicking your logo (which is a common web site design issue but hardly a universal thing).
[Edited: Oh, Spanish is also mentioned on the Quick Facts page, somewhere. And what does "qualified external translators" mean, if not "send us your CV if you're a translator"?]
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:
As no names are usually given, the '@' is preceded by hr, jobs, hiring, applications, etc., I start with 'Gentlemen,' - unless their web site proudly boasts that they have no males in management positions there. And then I continue with "In response to the invitation on your web site...", ...
The fact that no names are given, is an important point. Very few agency sites mention names, and you can't be sure if those names are up to date, and often you can't tell which of the names would be from the branch that you're trying to contact.
I suppose one could argue that if you address your mail to Suzy and it lands on John's desk, that he will instinctively forward it to Suzy, if the agency is relatively small and the PMs know each other's names (in some larger agencies this may not even be the case).
I don't start with Gentlemen because in my experience most translators and most agency people are women. That said, starting with Ladies might not be so PC either. I usually use "Hello" (although I had been tempted with "Dear Sir/Madam" and "To whom it may concern" at times). It is impossible to tell which salutation would be offensive to the reader.
I also agree with mentioning the contact point at the very start of the e-mail, so that the reader knows exactly why you contact him. If the web page on which translators are invited to apply has a simple, recognisable URL, I include that too.
septima wrote:
So, I think a better approach would be to reply courteously and respectfully to each and every one of the translators...
I think that is what the article meant. Buried in the opening paragraphs is this:
For most of the smaller, specialized agencies, like us, 3 sponatenous applications on average per day is not exactly drowning us, and we ... do actually take the time to read every single one of them.
But when the application was clearly sent via a mass-mailing system and does not match our needs at all, why would we reply? It feels like being spammed with something we don’t need.
The agency should decide how many translators they can afford to miss out on by not responding to applications that do match its needs, even if it clearly was sent via a mass mailing. But if the mail is both mass mailed and non-matching (i.e. not sent in person), then I agree that there is no sense in responding to it. Remember, replying to a mail often adds you to that person's address book... and you don't always want that to happen.
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Thank you for posting this article. Sure, some points are basic and should be obvious to all translators. But as a beginning translator it is very interesting to me to see the emails I send from the receiving end. This helps me to understand better how my mails are read and what I should focus on.
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