| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Translation agency does not issue official POs Thread poster: Anna A. K.
|
|---|
Anna A. K. 
Germany
Local time: 08:03
Member (2020)
English to German
I started working with a new agency and for the first project they did not send me a PO, just the PO number via email.
I asked them to issue a official PO and they said they always send PO numbers via email.
I usually have translation agencies send me POs without me even asking for it.
Since this is the first time I came across something like that, any suggestions how to handle it?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:03
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| All you need is a number | Oct 24, 2022 |
Anna1307 wrote:
I started working with a new agency and for the first project they did not send me a PO, just the PO number via email.
Yup, that's all you need. The purpose of the PO number is to uniquely identify the job on the invoice. The PO also describes the job in detail, but... sometimes the job is described in an e-mail. Why do you want a formal PO? What do you use it for (and what would you be unable to do if you didn't get one)?
| | | | Kevin Fulton
United States
Local time: 02:03
German to English
| PO at end of month | Oct 24, 2022 |
Although I get job numbers with each assignment, my favorite agency issues a formal PO at the end of the month since they prefer to be billed monthly. No big deal.
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 08:03
Italian to English
+ ...
| Email texts are fine | Oct 24, 2022 |
You have all you need in the email for a contact to have been formed. I don't think there's any such thing as an 'official' PO.
| | |
|
|
|
Sadek_A
Local time: 10:03
English to Arabic
+ ...
Anna1307 wrote:
they did not send me a PO. any suggestions how to handle it?
Politely ask them to send the full PO, mentioning that you have your own business procedures as well which take into account current and/or future local requirements.
A full PO serves to:
1. Examine authenticity of the agency, through furnishment of their letterhead, stamp and authorized signature. And, in some cases, agency's license number and reference.
2. Back up your legal position in case of any litigation/action regarding payment.
A PO number doesn't/can't/won't provide any of that!
| | | | | Computers vs paper | Oct 24, 2022 |
Before electronics existed, companies needed written evidence that an entity had ordered a product or service. The only medium available was paper. So paper it was, with letterheads and stamps and signatures and other formal-looking stuff.
When the telex was invented, it became acceptable to provide that evidence through telex in some cases, as a telex uniquely identifies the sender.
Then computers and networks and later the internet were invented, and we can send an em... See more Before electronics existed, companies needed written evidence that an entity had ordered a product or service. The only medium available was paper. So paper it was, with letterheads and stamps and signatures and other formal-looking stuff.
When the telex was invented, it became acceptable to provide that evidence through telex in some cases, as a telex uniquely identifies the sender.
Then computers and networks and later the internet were invented, and we can send an email to confirm what has been ordered under which conditions. Such emails contain the same essential information as a 'formal purchase order', so there you have your purchase orders. They just aren't formatted as a one-page PDF, but nobody today requires this to accept a purchase order sent as an email as evidence.
Let's not make things formal and bureaucratic and do things as 100 years ago just for the sake of it when modern procedures allow for a smoother way of working and there is no legal requirement for anything else.
As for due diligence, anyone can produce an authentically looking PDF today, so examining a 'formal PO' does not enable you to establish whether the claimed company behind it is authentic. POs are produced electronically anyway, which does not allow for any stamps, and signatures can easily be faked. We have no idea what an authentic signature would look like anyway.
There could be countries that still require paper and stamps and physical signatures, not to mention proof of posting and receipt – I wouldn't know – but in the so-called Western world, electronic documents and mails are sufficient today. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 08:03
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Sadek_A wrote:
A full PO serves to:
1. Examine authenticity of the agency, through furnishment of their letterhead, stamp and authorized signature.
Since many POs are actually issued after the job has been completed, it seems a little upside-down to want to use the appearance of a PO to gauge whether the agency is reliable and worth working for. (-: Oh, and I don't think I've ever seen a PO with a signature on it, and I've seen many POs that don't have a letterhead or logo on it.
2. Back up your legal position in case of any litigation/action regarding payment.
You do have a point here: if the PO is sent before you start with the job, you can use the PO to defend your position in case of dispute. Of course, this is no defense against "oh, sorry, we made a mistake on the PO, here is the corrected one" when that happens.
| | | | Sadek_A
Local time: 10:03
English to Arabic
+ ...
Samuel Murray wrote: Since many POs are actually issued after the job has been completed, it seems a little upside-down to want to use the appearance of a PO to gauge whether the agency is reliable and worth working for. (-: Oh, and I don't think I've ever seen a PO with a signature on it, and I've seen many POs that don't have a letterhead or logo on it. 2. Back up your legal position in case of any litigation/action regarding payment. You do have a point here: if the PO is sent before you start with the job, you can use the PO to defend your position in case of dispute. Of course, this is no defense against "oh, sorry, we made a mistake on the PO, here is the corrected one" when that happens.
1. Who said "after"?
If you, Samuel, accept it after, it's your choice. But, every other person who asks for a PO, demands it beforehand. That's the whole point of the PO.
2. Then, it wasn't a PO. The requirement for a legit PO is that it includes letterhead, stamp and authorized signature. And, in some cases, agency's license number and reference. Otherwise, how do you, debt-collector, court, or the authorities, link it back to said company/agency? I'm really expecting an answer!
3. I don't see your point, sorry. If they made a mistake on the PO, wouldn't you be the one to notice it, and request its correction, even before they do? What defense are you implying in that regard?
| | |
|
|
|
Sadek_A
Local time: 10:03
English to Arabic
+ ...
Thomas T. Frost wrote:
Such emails contain the same essential information as a 'formal purchase order', so there you have your purchase orders.
No, they don't. The point of a printed-out PO is to provide an irrevocable single, comprehensive unit of evidence.
The email could include the details across several messages, with several different persons.
And, the translator ends up facing confusion on his/her side or on the agency's personnel's side.
With platformed agencies, you get the PO yourself via taking screenshot(s) of the project; but, with non-platformed, a printed-out, duly-equipped PO is your one and only appropriate evidence.
Thomas T. Frost wrote:
As for due diligence, anyone can produce an authentically looking PDF today, so examining a 'formal PO' does not enable you to establish whether the claimed company behind it is authentic. POs are produced electronically anyway, which does not allow for any stamps, and signatures can easily be faked. We have no idea what an authentic signature would look like anyway.
Likewise, examining an email message does not enable you to establish whether the claimed company behind it is authentic.
Are you familiar with Email-Spoofing/Scamming?
| | | | Kay Denney
France
Local time: 08:03
French to English
So long as you have their PO number, and the number of words and the language pair and the deadline all specified in writing by email, there is no need whatsoever for a PO.
The less bureaucracy the better, and the bigger the agency the more bureaucracy they subject you to. If you've found an agency that's not so big on bureaucracy, so much the better, chances are it's one of those wonderful yet elusive boutique agencies that you can cultivate a beautiful working relationship with.
| | | | | Nothing to worry about | Oct 24, 2022 |
Anna1307 wrote:
I started working with a new agency and for the first project they did not send me a PO, just the PO number via email.
As a matter of fact, I have a few European agency clients who only send the order number, and one who only asks me whether I'm available. In the correlated invoice, I state "e-mail"+date in the PO number field, and I even get paid.
If ever I was assigned a job by phone, I'd just request confirmation by e-mail in order to keep a trace of the order.
Philippe
[Edited at 2022-10-24 14:55 GMT]
| | | |
Samuel Murray wrote: Sadek_A wrote:
A full PO serves to:
1. Examine authenticity of the agency, through furnishment of their letterhead, stamp and authorized signature. Since many POs are actually issued after the job has been completed, it seems a little upside-down to want to use the appearance of a PO to gauge whether the agency is reliable and worth working for. (-: Oh, and I don't think I've ever seen a PO with a signature on it, and I've seen many POs that don't have a letterhead or logo on it. 2. Back up your legal position in case of any litigation/action regarding payment. You do have a point here: if the PO is sent before you start with the job, you can use the PO to defend your position in case of dispute. Of course, this is no defense against "oh, sorry, we made a mistake on the PO, here is the corrected one" when that happens.
A PO has to be sent before the starting the job, there are many agencies asking you NOT to start the job before having received the PO and therefore the job confirmation.
I do not ask for a PO with long-standing customers but most of them send it along anyway. But I have to admit that I have to insist with some agencies to get the PO before starting the job.
What if you start the job without a PO and written confirmation and the customer retracts from the job the day after?
| | |
|
|
|
| No printing here | Oct 24, 2022 |
Sadek_A wrote: Thomas T. Frost wrote:
Such emails contain the same essential information as a 'formal purchase order', so there you have your purchase orders. No, they don't. The point of a printed-out PO is to provide an irrevocable single, comprehensive unit of evidence.
They do indeed contain the needed information such as deadline, word count and price, and if not, we obviously need to confirm the missing information, but there is no legal requirement in the Western world for printed evidence or evidence in a specific format.
Sadek_A wrote:
The email could include the details across several messages, with several different persons.
And, the translator ends up facing confusion on his/her side or on the agency's personnel's side.
It's usually not that messy, but if it is, nothing prevents the translator from summing it up and getting that summary approved. Whether you call it a formal PO in PDF format or just an email doesn't change its evidence value. Storing the emails in a folder that matches the project number is sufficient for keeping track of it in most cases.
Sadek_A wrote:
With platformed agencies, you get the PO yourself via taking screenshot(s) of the project; but, with non-platformed, a printed-out, duly-equipped PO is your one and only appropriate evidence.
What do you need the paper for? It doesn't make it better evidence. And it's not the only appropriate evidence. Western courts accept electronic evidence.
Sadek_A wrote: Thomas T. Frost wrote:
As for due diligence, anyone can produce an authentically looking PDF today, so examining a 'formal PO' does not enable you to establish whether the claimed company behind it is authentic. POs are produced electronically anyway, which does not allow for any stamps, and signatures can easily be faked. We have no idea what an authentic signature would look like anyway. Likewise, examining an email message does not enable you to establish whether the claimed company behind it is authentic. Are you familiar with Email-Spoofing/Scamming?
Oh, no, I've never heard of email spoofing and scamming in my 40-year career in IT and translation. It's completely new what you are telling me; I'm an amateur with no idea what I'm doing.
No, I'm being sarcastic because it's a ridiculous proposal. You can establish which company has sent an email if it's sent from the company's own domain, and you can check the header records in the email if you think it may be spoofed. You can also look up the domain in Whois and check company registers, online reputation and more. You don't need a formal PO to do any of this.
| | | | | Written confirmation needed | Oct 24, 2022 |
Wolfgang wrote:
What if you start the job without a PO and written confirmation and the customer retracts from the job the day after?
That would be very silly, but an email confirming the details is enough for Western courts.
| | | |
None of my long-standing customers send POs: we have been doing business for so long that a formal PO isn't required and good old-fashioned trust is all we need. Some international organizations establish a formal contract for each job. All of the new agencies I work with send a PO with each job (just a reference number or a proper PO), most before the job starts and one immediately after delivering the job.
| | | | | Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Translation agency does not issue official POs | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
