| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11] > | Kudoz - Leader list - A good moment to sort by usefulness rate too? Thread poster: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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| I have always been in favour | Jun 16, 2009 |
Nikki Graham wrote: Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
The Kudoz leader list can become a very good instrument, but it is not at present in my opinion, as now a critical factor is how long you have been in Proz. Reaching top positions in the list is very difficult for new users who provide very good help, so there is no incentive to do so.
This is one of the main reasons why the system should be changed. It is totally unfair to new users, or indeed anyone who joined Proz after those in the top ten. People shouldn't be forced to answer anything that moves at lightning speed just to get onto the leader board. We all know that this results in bad quality answers, a cluttered glossary, etc., etc., etc. We have been talking about this for years and nothing has ever changed. However, if this flaw was rectified, it might solve a lot of other problems at the same time...
and have expressed my opinion in many threads where this suggestion was proposed.
As Nikki says, the actual system is unfair for new or relatively new users and they have to make a lot of efforts in order to have a chance to get into the top list. And it is substantially meaningless as it says only that answerers have been given a certain number of points, but not how many answers have been necessary to obtain these points. In my opinion, there is a substantial difference between two people that have say 1.000 points, where the first one gave 400 answers and the second one.... 2.000.
But I don't think ProZ is interested in modifying it: if people were obliged to think twice before they post the first answer that comes to their mind, this would mean less answers and hence less site traffic...
[Bearbeitet am 2009-06-16 20:06 GMT]
| | | | | Just an option! | Jun 16, 2009 |
Christel Zipfel wrote:
But I don't think ProZ is interested in modifying it: if people were obliged to think twice before they post the first answer that comes to their mind, this would mean less answers and hence less site traffic...
Thanks a lot for your opinion Christel. I think adding an optional second list would not diminish o devaluate the efforts made by colleagues who prefer to answer quickly. It would add to Proz, not take from Proz!
| | | | Kristina Kolic 
Croatia
Local time: 14:04
English to Croatian
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SITE LOCALIZER | It would be quite useful | Jun 16, 2009 |
The way I see it, such an option would be quite useful. It would allow us to check how reliable a translator is when it comes to choosing an answer to a KudoZ question, but it would also be a useful feature for outsourcers.
Such an additional feature would emphasize the translator's quality in contrast to the quantity of answers to KudoZ questions. Therefore, I fully agree with those who would like to see this feature implemented.
| | | | Andrea Riffo
Chile
Local time: 08:04
English to Spanish
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| Also in favour... | Jun 16, 2009 |
... and have been since the first time I saw this idea.
I doubt it'll come to fruition, though, since staff has openly manifested that they have no intention of modifying the system.
Still, one can hope.
Andrea
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| Opinions so far: 11 for it; 1 against it; 1 deciding. | Jun 16, 2009 |
Thank you very much guys! Let's keep opinions rolling!
| | | | Vito Smolej
Germany
Local time: 14:04
Member (2004)
English to Slovenian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Orthogonal to it, but parallel | Jun 16, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Thank you very much guys! Let's keep opinions rolling!
+
... oh by the way, I would very much appreciate if those stratospheric top KudoZ earners would get less exposure. With my humble, bashful, hard earned 500 points I can't but feel differently abled in comparison with them. They must (none of my business btw) all be TUI - I have no other explanation for numbers like 30.000 and more.
Regards (g)
TUI: translating under infuence
[Edited at 2009-06-16 19:52 GMT]
| | | | | Completely agree | Jun 16, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Thanks a lot for your opinion Christel. I think adding an optional second list would not diminish o devaluate the efforts made by colleagues who prefer to answer quickly. It would add to Proz, not take from Proz!
but also, like Andrea says, now I recall:
ariffo wrote:
I doubt it'll come to fruition, though, since staff has openly manifested that they have no intention of modifying the system.
Still, one can hope.
Anyway, throughout the years I'm here, I have seen that we get what we don't need nor want, but we never get what we need or want:-D
| | | | Yaotl Altan
Mexico
Local time: 06:04
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Dear colleagues:
I am very aware of the fact that quick answers are sometimes preferred both by askers and by Proz.com themselves. But I also see that good answers are far more useful than quick answers, and that a majority of quick answers are not good enough and get ignored.
True.
A quick calculation, Kudoz points / number of answers, reveals how useful has each person been in Kudoz.
Indeed, that calculation is made. It's in our Kudoz statistics section but is NOT visible to others. I think it MUST be visible.
The Kudoz leader list can become a very good instrument, but it is not at present in my opinion, as now a critical factor is how long you have been in Proz. Reaching top positions in the list is very difficult for new users who provide very good help, so there is no incentive to do so.
So my proposal is to add a link to the Leaders list to have the option to sort the Top 50 list by usefulness, i.e. by the rate of Kudoz points / answers posted.
This is one of the most greatest suggestions I've read in Proz.
This way:
A) When in doubt choosing an answer, askers will have a chance to see who of several answerers is more likely to have posted a solid answer. This is critical as sometimes you don't have the time to repeat your research and you need to be able to trust someone else.
B) New customers can choose wisely, based on the success rate (and thus reliability and/or knowledge) of the answerers, not on how many questions they answered or how long they have been Proz users.
Agree, and not only that.... Let's think about a client deciding between 2 good translators with similar profiles, and with similar Kudoz, that's a tie! How can it be solved? Well, Translator A has reached 5000 Kudoz with 300 answers while Translator B has reached 5050 Kudoz with 679 answers. If Kudoz become am important parameter for that client, then Tomas' sugesstion is needed. Indeed, it doesn't harm anyone
And we'd just need a button to switch between total Kudoz and % usefulness.
C) More users will feel encouraged to help in Kudoz as they will have a chance to reach the top of the list, something they cannot do today as they can compete in knowledge and reliability, but not in time as users of Proz.com.
True again
This would not mean removing the list as it exists now, but merely adding an alternative way of sorting it. I would also make it a bit longer (for instance 100 users) to encourage people to help in Kudoz and see how they progress along time.
Right. I understand it as a kind of appendix to the current function, not a substitution.
Would you agree to such an alternative way of seeing the leaders list?
Sure, 100% agree.
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| Be patient - changes often raise a storm... | Jun 17, 2009 |
This is a little OT, so I'll try to keep it short.
ariffo wrote:
also in favour
... and have been since the first time I saw this idea.
I doubt it'll come to fruition, though, since staff has openly manifested that they have no intention of modifying the system.
Still, one can hope.
Andrea
This is a little OT, so I'll keep it short.
Whenever any change is made on this site, it is met with a flood of discussion, and often the opposition is more vociferous than those in favour.
We do not know what the silent majority thinks. Correspondence with staff and help tickets are not made public, and nobody can keep up with all the forums. If staff are convinced the majority is in favour, that swings it. That's democracy...
Keep the constructive suggestions coming in - they will be heard, but not necessarily followed in every detail.
| | | | | Indeed! Let's keep insisting on the good proposals | Jun 17, 2009 |
Christine Andersen wrote:
We do not know what the silent majority thinks. Correspondence with staff and help tickets are not made public, and nobody can keep up with all the forums. If staff are convinced the majority is in favour, that swings it. That's democracy...
Keep the constructive suggestions coming in - they will be heard, but not necessarily followed in every detail.
Yes, I think it is always helpful to insist on the proposals we feel are good. Thanks for this Christine!
Maybe the problem with Kudoz is that we are very stubborn and we often fail to see the good aspects of other people's attitudes. Both quick answers and documented answers have their uses and their life, and I think both attitudes are correct. My proposal is aimed towards giving "slow answerers" a bit more visibility.
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 14:04
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
| quick/slow is not the question imo | Jun 17, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
Both quick answers and documented answers have their uses and their life, and I think both attitudes are correct. My proposal is aimed towards giving "slow answerers" a bit more visibility.
The distinction you make between quick and slow/documented answers may be true, but imho it is beside the point: The question is not how quick or well documented an answer is, but whether it is correct or not. I'm fine with people answering a minute after a question has been posted, as long as their answer isn't just a quick guess. If someone is specialized in the relevant field, he may well briefly respond with a good solution after a minute, and I'm fine with that.
As a side remark: To a certain extent, I disagree with the concept that answerers are generally (!) required to extensively document their answer. Often, I see an answer as a starting point for further research that I carry out myself. I often post references only in cases where my answer is challenged, or where I want to challenge other's answers, or where my own CL isn't particularly high. I think that the task of verifying answers can generally be left to the asker, there is no need to serve answers on a silver plate.
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 14:04
English to German
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Christine Andersen wrote:
We do not know what the silent majority thinks. ... If staff are convinced the majority is in favour, that swings it. That's democracy...
How do you define "majority", Christine?
There are more than 300.000 ProZ users/members.
A couple of translators have expressed their opinion in this thread.
Does it really reflect what the majority (>150.000 people) thinks?
I don't think so.
I'm still weighing the pros and cons, and I still have mixed feelings (despite very good acceptance rates in my language pairs and specialist fields).
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| Quick answers are also OK with me! | Jun 17, 2009 |
efreitag wrote:
The distinction you make between quick and slow/documented answers may be true, but imho it is beside the point: The question is not how quick or well documented an answer is, but whether it is correct or not.
I agree! I post many "quick answers" myself, a minute after the question and with just a tiny explanation. As I have expressed above, I think both approaches are valid. It's a free world!
(Edited to edit the title, which did not correspond to my final posting).
[Edited at 2009-06-17 08:22 GMT]
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 14:04
English to German
+ ...
efreitag wrote:
The distinction you make between quick and slow/documented answers may be true, but imho it is beside the point: The question is not how quick or well documented an answer is, but whether it is correct or not.
Exactly!
I'm fine with people answering a minute after a question has been posted, as long as their answer isn't just a quick guess. If someone is specialized in the relevant field, he may well briefly respond with a good solution after a minute, and I'm fine with that.
Competent answers by competent translators can be given within minutes/seconds without backing the answers up with references or Google research. KudoZ is TERM help! No translator has time to write a "thesis" about a term
As a side remark: To a certain extent, I disagree with the concept that answerers are generally (!) required to extensively document their answer.
Exactly! KudoZ is term help, it's not a translation workshop.
| | | | | I can wait... | Jun 17, 2009 |
Aniello Scognamiglio wrote:
How do you define "majority", Christine?
There are more than 300.000 ProZ users/members.
A couple of translators have expressed their opinion in this thread.
Does it really reflect what the majority (>150.000 people) thinks?
Aniello, I will be happy to wait until everyone has expressed an opinion. However, just remember how many askers and answerers actually ask and answer in Kudoz. In my language pairs at most 300 different askers and probably 50 answerers in any given year.
BTW: Would you impose voting obligation in Germany as it exist in some countries? Personally I probably would in the case of Spain!
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