| Stron w wątku: < [1 2 3] | Isn't it absurd to equire a CAT tool to translate a poem?! Autor wątku: Maksym Petrov
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Lingua 5B 
Bośnia i Hercegowina
Local time: 18:32
Członek ProZ.com
od 2009
angielski > chorwacki
+ ...
Firstly, I've never scorned anyone or said anyone was stupid.
I surely respect yours or anyone else's views, however, your presented arguments don't make sense to me, and here is why :
When I translate poetry, I don't translate " lines or words" but poetic images first and foremost. Secondly, " line by line" principle works well in a technical manual, because in the technical manual, I don't really have to pay attention to syllables, rhythm, rhyme, tone, images... See more Firstly, I've never scorned anyone or said anyone was stupid.
I surely respect yours or anyone else's views, however, your presented arguments don't make sense to me, and here is why :
When I translate poetry, I don't translate " lines or words" but poetic images first and foremost. Secondly, " line by line" principle works well in a technical manual, because in the technical manual, I don't really have to pay attention to syllables, rhythm, rhyme, tone, images, etc, which is highly relevant in poetry. Often times, I need to reconstruct the poem, not just translate it ( and through reconstruction, I often have to change or modify the line by line structure, so it can never be be so strictly " technical", one line of source = equivalent line in target ).
Reconstruction and recreation, not just translation. That's poetry. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Berni Armstrong
Hiszpania
Local time: 18:32
Członek ProZ.com
angielski
+ ...
| I never said you did 5B | Mar 22, 2009 |
I agree with you whole heartedly that often a poem must be deconstructed and reconstructed in a form almost unrecognisable from the original. If the original contained no repetition at all, then a Cat tool would be deemed superfluous. In cases where whole verses are repeated, or lines repeat with a slight change in vocabulary, then an old faithful CAT tool might still be a useful tool in the tool box. I don't think there is any clear cut: "No, nay never" here.
However, deconstructin... See more I agree with you whole heartedly that often a poem must be deconstructed and reconstructed in a form almost unrecognisable from the original. If the original contained no repetition at all, then a Cat tool would be deemed superfluous. In cases where whole verses are repeated, or lines repeat with a slight change in vocabulary, then an old faithful CAT tool might still be a useful tool in the tool box. I don't think there is any clear cut: "No, nay never" here.
However, deconstructing and reconstructing is not the only valid translation method. Often translators of lyrics, for example for CD booklets, are asked to present a line by line literal translation. The object being supposedly to give the target audience a more "authentic" flavour of the original lyrics. It is no good arguing with such clients that a freer translation would be true to the spirit of the original. In such circumstances the old phrase: "He who pays the piper calls the tune" comes to mind.
Here's a short spontaneous rap on the subject:
To cat or not to cat,
Theres' no simple answer to that.
Sometimes you gotta reword,
Other times write something absurd.
We all know at the end of the day.
You gotta go with what The Man does say.
Even if you produce some crap verse,
He's the guy with his hand on the purse.
Our artistic integrities robbed,
When we take on those kind of jobs.
But in a world that's really unstable,
We still gotta put food on the table. ▲ Collapse
| | | | NancyLynn
Kanada
Local time: 12:32
Członek ProZ.com
od 2002
francuski > angielski
+ ...
Moderator tego forum | Very funny Berni! | Mar 22, 2009 |
I might add I believe your verse applies to many other professions as well!
Thanks
Nancy
| | | | Vito Smolej
Niemcy
Local time: 18:32
Członek ProZ.com
od 2004
angielski > słoweński
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Reconstruction and recreation, not just translation. That's poetry.
Now I get it. So next to CAT we need Computer Aided Reconstruction and Recreation.
CAR CAR - only this, and nothing more.
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Lingua 5B
Bośnia i Hercegowina
Local time: 18:32
Członek ProZ.com
od 2009
angielski > chorwacki
+ ...
| Machine poet | Mar 22, 2009 |
To cat or not to cat, Theres' no simple answer to that. Sometimes you gotta reword, Other times write something absurd. We all know at the end of the day. You gotta go with what The Man does say. Even if you produce some crap verse, He's the guy with his hand on the purse. Our artistic integrities robbed, When we take on those kind of jobs. But in a world that's really unstable, We still gotta put food on the table.
Machine poetry, bizarre deal
That is fully new to me.
Harder than hard is to feel
What in CAT do they see?
Although I have
deep respect
For science and tech,
This prospect
Is not for
poetry’s neck.
(Machine poet from the XVII Galaxy sings ):
My eyes are glazing
In the forever dark,
I’m a machine poet.
My verses are
fully wretched
My thoughts are
fuzzy matched.
| | | | | | Berni Armstrong
Hiszpania
Local time: 18:32
Członek ProZ.com
angielski
+ ...
Lingua 5B wrote:
My verses are fully wretched
My thoughts are fuzzy matched.
Where is the applause smiley when you need it. Brilliant!
Forgive my re-working of your scansion, but those two thoughts make a great couplet
| | | | | translators, poetry, CATrap and 'doggerel'; in good company | Mar 24, 2009 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
To cat or not to cat,
Theres' no simple answer to that.
...
Machine poetry, bizarre deal That is fully new to me. Harder than hard is to feel What in CAT do they see? ...
doggerel: There is at least one famous translator who enjoys writing 'doggerel', Yang Hsien-yi/Yang Xianyi 楊憲益/杨宪益 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Xianyi
[Edited at 2009-03-24 05:16 GMT]
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Andrew Grish (X)
Local time: 19:32
angielski > rosyjski
The rewriting of poetry in other languages is the nearly one kind of activity, where standard is the worst of all. It's not translating but making a version. Lingua 5B still said almost all I wonted to say about this. Only a few words more. (I translate mostly prose but sometime there are some fragments of poetry or even whole poems, so I have a professional experience). When I work I can use everything I want. Maybe I like to write with goose-guill on a roll of toilet paper and only then type t... See more The rewriting of poetry in other languages is the nearly one kind of activity, where standard is the worst of all. It's not translating but making a version. Lingua 5B still said almost all I wonted to say about this. Only a few words more. (I translate mostly prose but sometime there are some fragments of poetry or even whole poems, so I have a professional experience). When I work I can use everything I want. Maybe I like to write with goose-guill on a roll of toilet paper and only then type the text. Or I can use a CAT – if I think it’s useful for my work. Or I can stand upside down. But if there is a demand – use CAT in translating of poetry – the best answer is to say “bye”. (Unless the customer wants to pay really big money but it’s impossible – who have much money wouldn’t buy really bad work).
Heike Behl, Ph.D. wrote:
...to use a CAT tool to receive a bi-lingual file for proofreading and editing later... There is sense but it’s good for editor, not for translator (versionist) - as I think. ▲ Collapse
| | | | SilviuM
Rumunia
Local time: 19:32
rumuński > angielski
+ ...
| CAT translating poems :-P | Mar 31, 2009 |
Good evening!
Indeed, using a CAT tool for translating and literary adapting a poem is... ridiculous. Without *solid* knowledge on the literary techniques (not to mention on the verse metre!), one can trully say about him/her that he/she is T-O-A-S-T!
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