| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | ID Catch 22 for EU citizens living in Spain Thread poster: Noni Gilbert Riley
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Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 15:51
Member (2007)
English
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| Solvit looks great | Mar 1, 2012 |
I wish I'd known about Solvit when I had an EU-related problem.
I took a part-time salaried teaching job and was then told by my employer that they couldn't pay me because I only had a provisional social security number. The S.S. office told me that the allocation of permanent numbers was frozen, had been for many months and there was no sign of a change.
I took the problem to my lawyer who was stupified and really happy to represent me. We were both quite hoping for a... See more I wish I'd known about Solvit when I had an EU-related problem.
I took a part-time salaried teaching job and was then told by my employer that they couldn't pay me because I only had a provisional social security number. The S.S. office told me that the allocation of permanent numbers was frozen, had been for many months and there was no sign of a change.
I took the problem to my lawyer who was stupified and really happy to represent me. We were both quite hoping for a fight as he was 100% sure that the EU would uphold this as a case of discrimination: EU citizens with the right to work in France but no right to payment? (Un)fortunately, it took just one letter for my permanent number to magically arrive.
These hiccups we have in obtaining our rights really ought to be publicised widely so that hopefully things get changed and everyone benefits. I can't imagine how many other foreign workers were in my situation - I'm sure I wasn't alone. And I daresay there are others in your situation, Noni.
Sheila ▲ Collapse
| | | | Alison Sparks (X)
Local time: 16:51
French to English
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Me too. When I originally came to France I had my "permis de séjour", but since this no longer exists..... In any case no one has any right to demand that of an EU ressortisant, but I'm constantly being told I can't do this or that unless I produce my passport.
Again, like you I'm not really complaining, but am fascinated by the number of people who tell me the UK isn't part of the EU. Maybe it's just because they haven't adhered to the Euro? Or is it the age old historical con... See more Me too. When I originally came to France I had my "permis de séjour", but since this no longer exists..... In any case no one has any right to demand that of an EU ressortisant, but I'm constantly being told I can't do this or that unless I produce my passport.
Again, like you I'm not really complaining, but am fascinated by the number of people who tell me the UK isn't part of the EU. Maybe it's just because they haven't adhered to the Euro? Or is it the age old historical conflict?
Do you get the same "UK isn't EU" reaction in Spain. The last time I was there my French driving licence was perfectly acceptable as an ID. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 16:51
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
Dr. Andrew Frankland wrote:
stand in the cold for hours to get that lovely, green A4 sheet of paper
I ended up with such a phobia of those 4-hr queues (and subsequent green pieces of paper) that I made enquiries about getting dual nationality a couple of years ago.
- Oh no - I was told - you can't get British and Spanish dual nationality. That's impossible.
- Um, actually my children have British/Spanish dual nationality.
- Ah, but that's different - came the answer.
So the choice is becoming Spanish and getting a DNI, or staying British and keeping that lovely green piece of paper...
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As is so often the case, you've been given poor advice Emma. You can have dual nationality (I think Spain asks you to give up your British nationality, but Britain doesn't recognise this and cheerfully goes on providing you with a passport, or something like that).
That is, you can have dual nationality if you're prepared to gather your dental records as a neonate, your fingerprints from the first car you ever owned and a Christmas card from your first boyfriend. Or something lik... See more As is so often the case, you've been given poor advice Emma. You can have dual nationality (I think Spain asks you to give up your British nationality, but Britain doesn't recognise this and cheerfully goes on providing you with a passport, or something like that).
That is, you can have dual nationality if you're prepared to gather your dental records as a neonate, your fingerprints from the first car you ever owned and a Christmas card from your first boyfriend. Or something like that. And then present them in triplicate bearing a stamp from the British prime minister's second cousin removed. Correctly stapled.
I just decided to go on in my semi sin papeles muddle. ▲ Collapse
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Nasty feeling we're on a roll here... We're all heading off topic, but I am reluctant to start another thread, which I suppose should be called "problems with Spanish paperwork".
@Denise and Emma. Marry footballers. Even better, get a contract with a first division club yourself. This is the easiest route.
I spent close on 250.000 pesetas sending some lawyer chappie to the small village where I was born in S Am to get a "current copy" of the "long version" of my birth c... See more Nasty feeling we're on a roll here... We're all heading off topic, but I am reluctant to start another thread, which I suppose should be called "problems with Spanish paperwork".
@Denise and Emma. Marry footballers. Even better, get a contract with a first division club yourself. This is the easiest route.
I spent close on 250.000 pesetas sending some lawyer chappie to the small village where I was born in S Am to get a "current copy" of the "long version" of my birth certificate*, then send him to bribe his way up the queue to get the "Apostilla de la Haya" on it in order to be able to get married in Spain. Glad to say I'm still married, but I didn't have the foresight to ask for two copies, which means that applying for a Spanish nationality (married to, mother of and 25 years' residence make me a candidate) is a bit of a no-no. My father died recently and thank goodness he had the foresight specifically to name me as his daughter in his will, which he then registered in Spain, because otherwise I'd be faced with getting a copy of my birth certificate for the purposes of that too. And I'm still not sure what they are going to do about deciding whether my parents, who were married in Venezuela in 1956, were married under "separación de bienes" or "gananciales". That's Monday morning's project at the notary's.
*I did actually have a copy of the certificate of course, duly stamped although not apostilled, but I was assured there was no point in trying to get it apostilled because it was "too old". I was indeed a rather elderly bride and I decided to take great umbrage but no one paid any notice whatsoever. Perhaps they didn't know what umbrage was. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pido disculpas.... | Mar 1, 2012 |
...a la comunidad "comunitaria" residente en España que no tiene porqué hablar inglés y a quienes lógicamente les afecta este tema. Hasta ahora no había caído en la cuenta y ruego me perdonéis por posiblemente excluiros.
Invito vuestros comentarios sobre problemas que hayáis podido tener con la adminstración por carecer de tarjeta (física) de residencia española, aunque cabe comentar que hemos ido comentando más problemas sobre la legislación española y la identificaci... See more ...a la comunidad "comunitaria" residente en España que no tiene porqué hablar inglés y a quienes lógicamente les afecta este tema. Hasta ahora no había caído en la cuenta y ruego me perdonéis por posiblemente excluiros.
Invito vuestros comentarios sobre problemas que hayáis podido tener con la adminstración por carecer de tarjeta (física) de residencia española, aunque cabe comentar que hemos ido comentando más problemas sobre la legislación española y la identificación.
Saludos
Noni ▲ Collapse
| | | | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 16:51
Spanish to English
+ ...
Noni Gilbert wrote:
Yesterday I received a phone call from the Embassy saying that they had tried to charge my credit card for my passport but that payment had been refused ...
Just get a friend or similar to pay it for you. If you're really stuck, send me a personal email and I'll give you my credit card details so that you can charge it to my card. Then you can square me up when you get yours back, or by bank transfer or whatever.
BTW complaining will get you nowhere. Apparently they stopped issuing the NIE card because the UK refused to homologate them. However, if (as I did last week) you renew the "bit of useless paper" they now issue instead, you should find they have condensed all your details onto a DNI-sized square of said bumph with perforated edges so you can take it out and carry it around more comfortably, although you're still supposed to carry your passport which is a nuisance.
[Edited at 2012-03-21 17:23 GMT]
| | | | Emma Goldsmith
Spain
Local time: 16:51
Member (2004)
Spanish to English
| New format of the useless green paper | Mar 21, 2012 |
neilmac wrote:
However, if (as I did last week) you renew the "bit of useless paper" they now issue instead, you should find they have condensed all your details onto a DNI-sized square of said bumph with perforated edges so you can take it out and carry it around more comfortably, although you're still supposed to carry your passport which is a nuisance.
Excellent news, Neil. You've made my day
On what grounds did you renew your "bit of useless paper"? (Too worn out to be legible?)
Did you have to do the 5-hr queue as usual?
Please fill us in on any other details so we can decide whether it's worth all that terrible queuing.
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| Thank you Neil! | Mar 21, 2012 |
I am actually now the proud possessor of a new passport, courtesy of a bank transfer.
And I saw the new small format pesky piece of paper, which is vaguely laminated, this very afternoon, a colleague having just gone to get it. Come and live in Avila, he was furious because he had to wait for nearly an hour!
Interesting to hear another version of the excuse for why we don't have photo ID NIEs...
 ... See more I am actually now the proud possessor of a new passport, courtesy of a bank transfer.
And I saw the new small format pesky piece of paper, which is vaguely laminated, this very afternoon, a colleague having just gone to get it. Come and live in Avila, he was furious because he had to wait for nearly an hour!
Interesting to hear another version of the excuse for why we don't have photo ID NIEs...
 ▲ Collapse
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Also Irish, I used to live in Spain back even before the NIE days. I used to have to carry my passport with me at all times (I eventually stopped when I discovered how much fun it could be explaining to the Nacionales why I had no papers).
When I went to the passport office in Dublin to renew my dogeared passport, the official inspected the wear to the document caused by my having to carry it around and told me that she could, if she wanted, take it away and NEVER issue me with ano... See more Also Irish, I used to live in Spain back even before the NIE days. I used to have to carry my passport with me at all times (I eventually stopped when I discovered how much fun it could be explaining to the Nacionales why I had no papers).
When I went to the passport office in Dublin to renew my dogeared passport, the official inspected the wear to the document caused by my having to carry it around and told me that she could, if she wanted, take it away and NEVER issue me with another passport. I looked suitably impressed by her Godlike powers and she released a new one.
I suggest you write a petition to the European Parliament. I've spent recent years translating these for the EP. If your permission is admissible it will be taken up by a parliamentary committee and referred to the country in question. It's a quick and easy process, an email basically. Look at the EP website. ▲ Collapse
| | | | JaneD
Sweden
Local time: 16:51
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
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| Carte de séjour still exists in France | Mar 24, 2012 |
Alison Sparks wrote:
Me too. When I originally came to France I had my "permis de séjour", but since this no longer exists..... In any case no one has any right to demand that of an EU ressortisant, but I'm constantly being told I can't do this or that unless I produce my passport.
Actually, the "titre de séjour" has NOT been done away with. If you are an EU member, you are still entitled by French law to have your request for one considered, if you want one.* (They don't say they will actually grant it, however.)
Of course this doesn't stop the Prefecture from saying you don't need one then when you send an application accompanied by the relevant piece of French law losing the paperwork, denying that they ever had it, refusing to answer emails/telephone calls etc. etc. (Can you tell I am currently trying to get one for my husband...?)
It's all part of the - no doubt deliberate - policy to try to deprive "foreigners" of their rights, and as other posters have mentioned it is very difficult as simple EU citizens to achieve these.
Jane
*CIRCULAIRE 11° NOR IMIM10U0116C to French Prefectures relating to Loi n°2006-911 du 24 juillet 2006: "Ce caractère facultatif du titre de séjour est un avantage consenti aux citoyens de l'UE et assimilés qui sont seuls juges de l'opportunité d’en user. En ce qui vous concerne, le deuxième alinéa de l’artic1e L. 121-2 indique que vous avez l'obligation d’instruire la demande de carte de séjour que de tels ressortissants pourraient être amenés à présenter." (My emphasis)
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