Confused about TM Lookup and TM Update in WF 3.1.4 Autor wątku: Hirundo
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Hirundo
Local time: 16:26
Członek ProZ.com
angielski > niderlandzki
+ ...
I am confused about how Wordfast 3.1.4 handles TM Lookup and TM Updating when I proofread text (= read through and correct a translation). Can you explain it?
I have enabled "Perform TM Lookup automatically". My key bindings are Alt+Down = Next Segment (TM Commit); and Ctrl+Down = Next Segment (No Commit). Auto Propagation is off (it wraps around at the end of the file and should not do that for me).
This is what happens and confuses. (What I want is at the end.)
... See more I am confused about how Wordfast 3.1.4 handles TM Lookup and TM Updating when I proofread text (= read through and correct a translation). Can you explain it?
I have enabled "Perform TM Lookup automatically". My key bindings are Alt+Down = Next Segment (TM Commit); and Ctrl+Down = Next Segment (No Commit). Auto Propagation is off (it wraps around at the end of the file and should not do that for me).
This is what happens and confuses. (What I want is at the end.)
Advancing with Alt+Down: WF apparently updates the TM when I change a translation, but does not show the updated translation when I encounter the same segment next time. In fact the TM Lookup window does nothing at all. This is strange and useless for me, because when I proof I want to be informed when a translation is different from the TM translation.
Advancing with Ctrl+Down: The TM Lookup windows shows TM lookup results of the source segment or the target segment. (In some segments, the text field in the TM Lookup window is automatically populated with the source text, in other segments, with the target text, and which one it is appears random.) As expected (No Commit), the TM is not updated when I change the translation. This is also useless for me, because I want to lookup only similar source segments and update the TM.
I want Alt+Down and Alt+Ctrl with one key binding: Whenever I go to the next segment, always update the TM with changes in the current target segment and always show the (updated) TM lookup result for the next source segment (without overwriting the existing translation). In Trados parlance: I need the basic Set/Close Next Open/Get.
Is this possible with WF?
Thank you,
Joachim ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Proofreading is not translating | Apr 6, 2013 |
Hirundo Dutch Language Services wrote:
Advancing with Alt+Down: WF apparently updates the TM when I change a translation, but does not show the updated translation when I encounter the same segment next time. In fact the TM Lookup window does nothing at all. This is strange and useless for me, because when I proof I want to be informed when a translation is different from the TM translation.
Joachim
Hello Joachim,
this is correct because when you proofread, the segment are not leveraged since there is already a translation provided in the target column.
What I do is manually run a concordance search of the segment (or part of it) to see if in the TM there is already something similar already translated.
| | | | Hirundo
Local time: 16:26
Członek ProZ.com
angielski > niderlandzki
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | Thank you, but ... | Apr 8, 2013 |
Hello Paola,
Thank you for your reply! But I still wonder how I can proofread with WF.
this is correct because when you proofread, the segment are not leveraged since there is already a translation provided in the target column.
↑ During proofreading I do not want to automatically leverage the segment, but I must see what is in the TM. (If necessary, I can leverage all or part of it manually.) I do not understand why WF would not show similar segments in the TM Lookup window when there already is a translation. What is the benefit of this limitation?
What I do is manually run a concordance search of the segment (or part of it) to see if in the TM there is already something similar already translated.
↑ I understand that, but this workaround is not feasible for me. It is far too cumbersome on the long texts I proof.
So, Alt+Down seems useless for me for proofreading. Or can somebody convince me it is good for proofreading?
Then, can somebody explain how Ctrl+Down could help me, when it does not update the TM and looks up similar target segments in the TM? That is not helpful at all for proofreading. Why would WF do that?
Thank you,
Joachim
| | | | | Proofreading in WF Pro | Apr 9, 2013 |
Hirundo,
I share your same perplexity regarding these oddities of WF Pro for proofreading.
Perhaps someone with a bigger expertise than me can shed some light on the subject.
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Hirundo
Local time: 16:26
Członek ProZ.com
angielski > niderlandzki
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | Proofreading in WF, possible? | Apr 11, 2013 |
Can somebody shed light on the apparent fact that you cannot proof with a TM in WF?
This means not only that you cannot proof a translation you receive. You cannot even review your own translation with help from the TM.
I find this TM behaviour very strange. It does not help me check consistency and does not improve productivity. I end up doing as much manual searching and copying as I do without a TM. While WF has some great features, the apparently powerless TM for me... See more Can somebody shed light on the apparent fact that you cannot proof with a TM in WF?
This means not only that you cannot proof a translation you receive. You cannot even review your own translation with help from the TM.
I find this TM behaviour very strange. It does not help me check consistency and does not improve productivity. I end up doing as much manual searching and copying as I do without a TM. While WF has some great features, the apparently powerless TM for me is a strong argument not to use WF at all.
Are you a WF expert? Please teach me the art of proofreading in WF. ▲ Collapse
| | | | nrichy (X)
Francja
Local time: 09:26
francuski > niderlandzki
+ ...
I don't understand what you mean by leveraging the TM while proofreading. As far as I understand, leveraging is useful when translating.
This is my way: while proofreading the bilingual file, I correct one segment, confirm it with Alt + Down, then I search in the bilingual file if there are other occurrencies of the same error (one can search on source text and on target text), and then I look if they are corrected or not. WF Pro automatically updates repetitions, and the other occu... See more I don't understand what you mean by leveraging the TM while proofreading. As far as I understand, leveraging is useful when translating.
This is my way: while proofreading the bilingual file, I correct one segment, confirm it with Alt + Down, then I search in the bilingual file if there are other occurrencies of the same error (one can search on source text and on target text), and then I look if they are corrected or not. WF Pro automatically updates repetitions, and the other occurrencies have to be corrected by hand.
Then I save the whole translated text in the original file format and do a second proofreading comparing with the original file (either on paper, either on the screen), and correct the errors in the bilingual file, then save again. (in case of PPT, three or four cycli are often necessary). At the end, I commit the whole bilingual file to the TM, and this TM will be used the next time for the next text.
Same process for WF Classic: proofreading on the bilingual file + comparison with the target file (but WF Cl does not automatically update répétitions), and also for Trados.
This means that, if you have, say, 2 nearly identical files, then you should at first prepare 1 file entirely (the whole cyclus) before processing the other one.
But maybe there are other ways of proofreading. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Hirundo
Local time: 16:26
Członek ProZ.com
angielski > niderlandzki
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | Proofreading against a TM, possible in WF? | Apr 12, 2013 |
Hello nrichy,
Thank you for your reply. I understand how you work and already explained why that method does not work for me. It is possible I am wrong about WF, but then can somebody teach me?
I don't understand what you mean by leveraging the TM while proofreading.
↑ I do not want to automatically insert TM matches during proofreading. But I must see similar TM matches in order to check the consistency of the translation (among other reasons). Alt+Down does not show similar TM matches if there is a translation (the essence of proofreading). Ctrl+Down does not update the TM and randomly looks up similar source or target segments. That also is not helpful.
I correct one segment, confirm it with Alt + Down, then I search in the bilingual file if there are other occurrencies of the same error (one can search on source text and on target text)
↑ I understand all that. It is far too cumbersome on the big (and many) files I work with. I expect that a TM automatically shows me similar source segments whenever I arrive at a segment, regardless whether it has been translated or not. I do not expect that the TM hides mismatches when I arrive at a segment, as it seems to do now.
WF Pro automatically updates repetitions
↑ I disabled auto propagation. I tried its settings and do not undestand how it works. Its most unwelcome feature seems to be that it wraps around at the end of the file and "updates" segments that I already checked. I find that extremely dangerous. Repetitions can have multiple translations for a good reason. Auto propagation should not wrap around and -behind my back- change text higher in the file that I already checked. (At least it could prompt me.) Please tell me if the "wrap around" feature can be switched off?
Can anybody explain how you can simply, efficiently, check a translation against a TM?
To be sure: I do not talk about theory, but texts that I proof where WF fails. On the other hand, I am familiar with Déjà Vu X, Trados and Studio and they are (very) powerful and transparent on the same texts regarding the above issues. Unfortunately, I cannot select my tool for these texts and need your help for WF. Anybody?
| | | | | Auto propagation | Apr 12, 2013 |
Hirundo Dutch Language Services wrote:
↑ I disabled auto propagation. I tried its settings and do not undestand how it works. Its most unwelcome feature seems to be that it wraps around at the end of the file and "updates" segments that I already checked. I find that extremely dangerous.
I agree with you that sometimes auto propagation is very dangerous, especially in very short segments. For long sentences it is pretty useful. You can deselect the option "overwrite modified segment" and the others to avoid it to work backwards. In memoQ there is a specified setting for that (auto propagate backward/auto propagate forward only), but in WF Pro it seems you have to play a little with those checkbox in the preferences > auto propagation menu.
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Hirundo
Local time: 16:26
Członek ProZ.com
angielski > niderlandzki
+ ...
NOWY TEMAT | Still: Proofreading with a TM, possible in WF? | Apr 15, 2013 |
Hi Paola,
in WF Pro it seems you have to play a little with those checkbox in the preferences > auto propagation menu
↑ Thank you for the advice. I switched if off because I cannot seem to get it work predictably. WF keeps changing checked segments (higher in the text) either within one session or between sessions. One simple additional option "auto-propagate only forward" would be clearest and most helpful.
I am also still stuck with the strange Alt+Down and Ctrl+Down behaviour. The very thing you need a TM for is to display possible matches, and WF does not do that consistently. It is hard to accept that WF is so unproductive for proofreading.
If Wordfast developers are reading this:
- Is it possible to see TM suggestions automatically when checking a translation? (matches for source segments of course)
- Can you improve the current behaviour and add a single key combination that WF always shows TM matches in the Lookup window and always updates the TM?
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