| Stron w wątku: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Is our profession dead? Autor wątku: Levan Namoradze
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Denis Fesik
Local time: 05:04
angielski > rosyjski
+ ...
| How do they all get away with it? | Sep 13, 2023 |
I mean, those agencies which claim to support all the languages in the world with hardly any means to verify the quality of their outputs? And with skyrocketing churn rates, I imagine. Can't see how you can run such a business successfully. I get to check a lot of translation tests, and not the hardest ones at that, and over 90% fail them despite me trying to be as merciful as possible. So, how can an agency use a bunch of free bottom-level translators to translate a non-rubbish text in a test m... See more I mean, those agencies which claim to support all the languages in the world with hardly any means to verify the quality of their outputs? And with skyrocketing churn rates, I imagine. Can't see how you can run such a business successfully. I get to check a lot of translation tests, and not the hardest ones at that, and over 90% fail them despite me trying to be as merciful as possible. So, how can an agency use a bunch of free bottom-level translators to translate a non-rubbish text in a test mode, and keep doing it regularly? Sorry, I can't believe that. Maybe it's my sensitivity to all things language. Some translation blunders may scream non-professionalism to me, but other translators, maybe some of those who always keep mum in our work chat unless they have a problem they can't solve on their own, may not even understand what's wrong with examples I often share in that chat ▲ Collapse
| | | | conejo 
USA
Local time: 20:04
japoński > angielski
+ ...
| In serious decline | Sep 13, 2023 |
Insultingly low rates for human translation, prevalence of MTPE for even worse rates given the time it takes to do that, complete lack of concern for translators, agencies lying and trying to pass off MT as human translation, extreme lack of work for any kind of good rates, this has been going on for too long. Most of the work actually being offered comes down to $3-$7 USD per hour when you consider the actual time it takes to do the work. Maybe people in countries with a low cost of living can ... See more Insultingly low rates for human translation, prevalence of MTPE for even worse rates given the time it takes to do that, complete lack of concern for translators, agencies lying and trying to pass off MT as human translation, extreme lack of work for any kind of good rates, this has been going on for too long. Most of the work actually being offered comes down to $3-$7 USD per hour when you consider the actual time it takes to do the work. Maybe people in countries with a low cost of living can live off that but I can't. Plus it is a slap in the face to have been a professional translator for 20 years and now be told I am expected to do this complicated work at or below minimum wage. Especially when minimum wage is not even survivable and hasn't been updated since 2009.
I could write pages and pages on this but I don't see any way for this industry to recover. The future is looking extremely bleak and has looked that way for a long time. I think I have mostly been having wishful thinking because this used to be a nice job back before CAT tools started all this mess that turned into this.
[Edited at 2023-09-13 23:31 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Is our profession dead | Sep 14, 2023 |
I am reminded in particular of one mega-agency that we are all too familiar with. From time to time, it is "banned". Then, a few weeks later, mirabile dictu, the ban is lifted and all is forgiven. This has happened numerous times over the years with this same agency. If an agency is banned, it should be banned. I am also reminded of a tradition of Canon Law in the Catholic Church. When a crime has been committed in a Catholic church, the church is immediately shut down and a ceremony of deconse... See more I am reminded in particular of one mega-agency that we are all too familiar with. From time to time, it is "banned". Then, a few weeks later, mirabile dictu, the ban is lifted and all is forgiven. This has happened numerous times over the years with this same agency. If an agency is banned, it should be banned. I am also reminded of a tradition of Canon Law in the Catholic Church. When a crime has been committed in a Catholic church, the church is immediately shut down and a ceremony of deconsecration is carried out. Time passes and at a certain time, a ceremony of reconsecration is carried out and the church is reopened. Until the next time.
I am also reminded of the junior doctors and nurses in the UK who are striking from time to time in the hopes that the government will eventually recognize their worth and pay them a decent wage. They would be better served to see the writing on the wall and book a flight to New Zealand or Australia where there is a need for talented medical professionals.
People with language skills would be better served to pivot to other professions: finance, the law or IT.
Eventually the translation agencies themselves will shut down for good as end clients will use AI or some other miracle of technology. ▲ Collapse
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Philip Lees
Grecja
Local time: 04:04
grecki > angielski
Ioannis Chatzilaris wrote:
(the above is a straight translation from Greek to English through DeepL - I am sure you get the message)
[Edited at 2023-09-13 10:54 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-09-14 05:10 GMT]
A "straight" translation. Edited twice.
Actually, it's not bad at all. On a quick read, I spotted only two points at which the Greek interference was apparent.
So, an acceptable second draft translation. Only one more edit needed.
| | | | Baran Keki
Turcja
Local time: 05:04
Członek ProZ.com
angielski > turecki
| A very close shave | Sep 14, 2023 |
I almost witnessed the death of translation yesterday and it was a damn unnerving experience I can tell you!
Ever since I did that bloody Windows update yesterday morning, I wasn't able to edit anything in DeepL! Sentences were being translated and you could see the suggestions when you click on the terms, but nothing would happen when you chose a term from the dropdown menu!
I restarted Chrome, and then the computer, but the result was the same. I tried different browsers (Edge, Fi... See more I almost witnessed the death of translation yesterday and it was a damn unnerving experience I can tell you!
Ever since I did that bloody Windows update yesterday morning, I wasn't able to edit anything in DeepL! Sentences were being translated and you could see the suggestions when you click on the terms, but nothing would happen when you chose a term from the dropdown menu!
I restarted Chrome, and then the computer, but the result was the same. I tried different browsers (Edge, Firefox, even downloaded the bleeding Opera) to no avail... I waited for more than an hour, thinking this might be a glitch of some kind. I called a couple of friends, they confirmed that they had the same issue since that morning...
It was around that time I began to fear for the worst. I felt helpless, and asked myself 'Is this the moment? Is this the hour? Is this the dreaded end that's been talked about on these forums for years? Has it finally come to pass? Oh God, what the f*ck am I gonna do? Am I to look for a new job at the not-so-tender age of 45 (after having killed off whatever 'people skills' I may have had through years of staying at home, in front of the computer, being 'available') or go back to being a kebabman (which I did more than 20 years ago.. it had its moments, but it wasn't much of a career really..) or turn to a life of crime to support my family?
All sorts of crazy thoughts flash through your mind at that moment.. I've never paid any attention to the 'Translation Is Dead as a Dodo Brigade' over the years and never planned for such a contingency! I was caught completely off guard and was totally and utterly stunned (there is no other word for it!).
I just sat there motionless for hours, thinking what to do next and occasionally trying DeepL to see if it went back to normal, but no dice...
After what seemed like ages I tried Chrome again (sometime in the late afternoon) and saw that I was able to edit the translations in the target pane! I can't describe the relief I felt at that moment... I literally saw the translation raise from the dead, step out of its grave, tearing off its shroud with an almighty roar, crying "I ain't dead you b*tches!"
So, the dead or dying translators, I have news for you: translation has come back from the dead. I repeat, it's not dead. It's come back to haunt you. It's come back to claim your waking hours, confine you to your small room, have you stare at the pixels all day long and type away for hours on end.
Inshallah (as they say in London) something like this never happens again! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bośnia i Hercegowina
Local time: 03:04
Członek ProZ.com
od 2009
angielski > chorwacki
+ ...
| For a flat rate of $1 | Sep 14, 2023 |
Philip Lees wrote:
Ioannis Chatzilaris wrote:
(the above is a straight translation from Greek to English through DeepL - I am sure you get the message)
[Edited at 2023-09-13 10:54 GMT]
[Edited at 2023-09-14 05:10 GMT]
A "straight" translation. Edited twice.
Actually, it's not bad at all. On a quick read, I spotted only two points at which the Greek interference was apparent.
So, an acceptable second draft translation. Only one more edit needed.
And you can earn a generous $1 for it.
| | | | | Oh what joy! | Sep 14, 2023 |
Baran Keki wrote:
{...}
So, the dead or dying translators, I have news for you: translation has come back from the dead. I repeat, it's not dead. {...}
Cue in the Hallelujah Chorus….
[Edited at 2023-09-14 23:18 GMT]
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conejo
USA
Local time: 20:04
japoński > angielski
+ ...
Baran Keki wrote:
Is this the dreaded end that's been talked about on these forums for years? Has it finally come to pass? Oh God, what the f*ck am I gonna do? Am I to look for a new job at the not-so-tender age of 45 (after having killed off whatever 'people skills' I may have had through years of staying at home, in front of the computer, being 'available') or go back to being a kebabman (which I did more than 20 years ago.. it had its moments, but it wasn't much of a career really..) or turn to a life of crime to support my family?
This is exactly what many people are facing now. When you are 45 it is very difficult to accept doing a skilled job for $7/hr or less, or going to work at McDonald's etc. At 45 we are supposed to be able to have something. In terms of the evolution of a career our wage should have been increasing, at least with inflation. But there has been an extreme decrease and now there is lack of work. Now we are left with nothing but this abysmal situation in front of us. And people are sitting around saying "Yay AI!!! It's awesome!" Well it's awesome until you don't have a job anymore and are in the street.
[Edited at 2023-09-14 23:35 GMT]
| | | | conejo
USA
Local time: 20:04
japoński > angielski
+ ...
I did not know about this
| | | | conejo
USA
Local time: 20:04
japoński > angielski
+ ...
| People asking for free work | Sep 14, 2023 |
There are also way too many people who think that translation is something we should offer for free. The other day this woman (a private individual) contacted me via ProZ asking me to do some language-related work for her, and she actually stated that she is asking me to do this for free. It was a very polite email but the bottom line is she expects me to do free work for her.
Since many people seem to be clueless about translation, I explained to her that ProZ is a paid site we hav... See more There are also way too many people who think that translation is something we should offer for free. The other day this woman (a private individual) contacted me via ProZ asking me to do some language-related work for her, and she actually stated that she is asking me to do this for free. It was a very polite email but the bottom line is she expects me to do free work for her.
Since many people seem to be clueless about translation, I explained to her that ProZ is a paid site we have to pay money to be listed on, and translation is a job we do in order to make money, and that people do this job in order to put food on the table and pay bills. And that I am not going to be doing any free work for her, and that other people on ProZ probably won't either. And I said that she probably wouldn't like it if people at her job asked her to do work for free.
To which she basically replied that she is shocked that I am rude, and she doesn't see why I won't help her with this, the overall tone is that I am in the wrong and extremely rude for not doing free work for a stranger.
There are too many people who just don't see translation as being a job that is paid for. I don't understand why they don't see that we need to pay bills too. We are people. If she wants it for free go search the Internet. After all this she still was clearly planning on trying to get someone to do this for free.
[Edited at 2023-09-14 23:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Dan Lucas
Wielka Brytania
Local time: 02:04
Członek ProZ.com
od 2014
japoński > angielski
| I would agree more wholeheartedly if... | Sep 15, 2023 |
conejo wrote:
There are too many people who just don't see translation as being a job that is paid for. I don't understand why they don't see that we need to pay bills too. We are people. If she wants it for free go search the Internet. After all this she still was clearly planning on trying to get someone to do this for free.
...I hadn't responded to an inquiry from (possibly) the same polite female. In this case it was about a single image rather than a text. I was mildly intrigued by the question, so I tossed it into one of my mailing lists, got a prompt response and an URL to check, passed it on to her, and that was that. Minimal effort, and I learned something for myself in the process.
However, if she had asked me to translate something for free, I would have declined immediately and politely referred her to Google Translate. As you say, this is our livelihood.
More generally, while I do sympathise with your responses in this topic, I'm afraid the world does not owe us - or anybody - a living. It doesn't care how old we are, or how many dependents we support, or how much experience we do or don't have, or how much our cost of living has risen or fallen. (Fallen? Hah! Chance would be a fine thing.) All we can do is try to adapt to changing circumstances. That has worked for me in my niche so far, and I have plenty of work.
That doesn't mean that I have it easier than most people (I suspect Becca is in the same boat, and will confirm). In order to establish my reputation with clients as a cooperative partner I have been very proactive in my use of CAT tools. In order to create an image of dependable availability I accept every offer I can, even if it results in very difficult deadlines for me personally. That takes some financial pressure off me, but also creates personal issues that would not be experienced by somebody receiving fewer offers of work.
For example, this morning I have been staring grimly at a timetable that implies the need to translate around 7k characters every single day for the rest of the month, and around 4-5k a day until late October. And then I will probably have a minor surge of chukan kessan work, so I'm not going to have much free time between now and mid-November. My main concern will be avoiding physical problems arising from lack of rest. I have suffered from intermittent RSI for many years, as well as back and leg pain. This level of work is not going to help.
(EDIT: to make this point explicit, I believe that there is an increasingly pronounced tendency in this industry towards polarization between those with too little work for comfort and those with too much work for comfort. Neither situation is ideal, but the set of problems each group faces is different. I reckon very few freelancers can ever be in a Goldilocks situation where their mix of work and leisure is "just right".)
As well as crafting an image of being always available, I've been taking steps to raise the quality of my own output by building tools to check for certain errors. Again, the research involved has required me to put in (many) dozens of hours of time and effort, but hopefully any small gains I can make will allow me to differentiate myself from other translators. As I have argued in the past, if you're in a group of hikers running away from a hungry bear, you don't necessarily have to run faster than the bear, you just have to make sure that you're not the slowest hiker.
But however fast we run, the day may come when we can no longer support ourselves through translation in this language pair, or at least translation of the traditional kind. At that point we - I - may need to consider plan B.
Looking around various forums on the internet I get the impression that many professions are facing similar problems. Cold comfort, I know, but it's not just translation.
Regards,
Dan
[Edited at 2023-09-15 09:50 GMT]
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Marijke Singer
Hiszpania
Local time: 03:04
niderlandzki > angielski
+ ...
| Market is changing | Sep 15, 2023 |
Maria Teresa Borges de Almeida wrote:
Not at all! Since the pandemic work has been more irregular than ever. For instance, in July I had almost no work and in August I was flooded with work the whole month. September is looking good, too. All in all, things look pretty alive…
Similar situation. April and July very quiet (50% of what I normally do) and August was 250% and September around 120% so far.
| | | | Yasutomo Kanazawa
Japonia
Local time: 11:04
Członek ProZ.com
od 2005
angielski > japoński
+ ...
conejo wrote:
There are also way too many people who think that translation is something we should offer for free. The other day this woman (a private individual) contacted me via ProZ asking me to do some language-related work for her, and she actually stated that she is asking me to do this for free. It was a very polite email but the bottom line is she expects me to do free work for her.
Since many people seem to be clueless about translation, I explained to her that ProZ is a paid site we have to pay money to be listed on, and translation is a job we do in order to make money, and that people do this job in order to put food on the table and pay bills. And that I am not going to be doing any free work for her, and that other people on ProZ probably won't either. And I said that she probably wouldn't like it if people at her job asked her to do work for free.
To which she basically replied that she is shocked that I am rude, and she doesn't see why I won't help her with this, the overall tone is that I am in the wrong and extremely rude for not doing free work for a stranger.
There are too many people who just don't see translation as being a job that is paid for. I don't understand why they don't see that we need to pay bills too. We are people. If she wants it for free go search the Internet. After all this she still was clearly planning on trying to get someone to do this for free.
[Edited at 2023-09-14 23:44 GMT]
There is a famous story, maybe an urban legend, about a woman who asked Picasso to draw a portrait of herself where Picasso finishes drawing the portrait in 30 seconds and asking for 1 million dollars. The woman is surprised by the price and asks him why it costs 1 million dollars to draw for just 30 seconds. Picasso replies that it did not take only 30 seconds, but 30 years to train himself to be able to draw a portrait in 30 seconds. That's why the price you are about to pay is for 30 years and 30 seconds.
Since Japanese is your working language, you can read the story in Japanese below.
https://dain.cocolog-nifty.com/myblog/2021/04/post-70e4cb.html
| | | | Tony Keily
Local time: 03:04
włoski > angielski
+ ...
| Faultless French, without the need for an interpreter | Sep 18, 2023 |
A story was recently posted on the Italian Journalists' Association news site entitled 'Matteo Salvini's Faultless French':
https://www.agi.it/politica/news/2023-09-17/lega-salvini-intelligenza-artificiale-video-francese-invito-pontida-23067752/
The story tells us how Lega party leader Salv... See more A story was recently posted on the Italian Journalists' Association news site entitled 'Matteo Salvini's Faultless French':
https://www.agi.it/politica/news/2023-09-17/lega-salvini-intelligenza-artificiale-video-francese-invito-pontida-23067752/
The story tells us how Lega party leader Salvini was able to address his French invitees in their own language using the IA HeyGen platform that apparently also lip-synced his speech.
For me the important point here is that the article tells its Italian readership that the politician could speak in 'faultless French, without the need for an interpreter' thanks to AI. This is because the threat from new technological solutions is directly linked to the extent to which the average person is convinced of their potential and the extent to which the media confirms any positive impressions. A version of this story was carried across all print media in the country.
What's important is that the journalist in this case is convinced that the solution in question offers 'faultless French', not our eventual specialist view of the end product. We can feel as irreplaceable as we like, and claim as much as we want that our nuanced human talents will never be replicated by machines. (I'm pretty sure that a century ago tailors and shoemakers scoffed at the idea that their handmade bespoke items would be replaced by shoddy mass-produced industrial products.) But the impact on our profession will be determined by outside, general perceptions, and the platform they are given. ▲ Collapse
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